Circulated Wheatie Grading Practice !

The ever popular "net grading" question, eh?

In my opinion an AU-50 with a couple small gouges next to the date is "an AU-50 with a couple small gouges next to the date," not "EF-45."

Net grading is too whim and opinion driven for my taste. 'Regular' grading has enough of that already.

I think that the normal collector of raw coins face the same problems as the professional , I mean trying not to interject budgetary considerations into the grading of a key date (Market grading ) trying to keep personally unappealing attributes of a certain circulated coin (net grading) from tainting the science and art of grading is difficult for everyone , I know it is for me .



This discussion is more for myself as I work to refine my own grading experience and I appreciate all the comments .

Thad ,I really appreciate you here on the forum your desire and approach to grading and collecting serves as a pattern which is without a doubt having an affect on the collectors here and the hobby as a whole .

Jim,

I see the merit in the "net grading" concept, as it relates to value; but here's my problem with that concept:

Assume Two Cents, a 1914-S and a 1931-S, both in a technical AU-50 grade. In AU-50, they are worth approximately the same. Let's assume they have the exact same problem, perhaps a distracting scratch, and we think that this scratch makes the coin half as valuable. Using net grading, the 14-S would be net graded VF-30 or EF-40 (around half the value of the AU-50); the 31-S would need to be net graded AG-3 or lower to cut its value in half.

That sums up my problem with "net grading." While it can be reasonably applied in some cases, it falls apart in other cases.

Jim

This is more about circulated coins than Mint state coins but some of the principles apply to both .

for circulated grades it is wear on the devices which determine the grade , most other attributes of the coin aside , trying to pin down a grade when personal opinion on color ,strike (which by the way loses its power at a certain point in circulation ) is very hard .

the more clinical the approach the better the less person preference which is interjected into the grading practice the more consistent the outcome and thus the more consistent the market becomes .

net grading is almost always influenced by personal opinion ,that nick in the field the dent in the letters etc.

my point is if the coin has a technical grade of EF-45 based on the wear of the devices then the grade should not be able to fall from the EF category based on a couple of dings in the field . it may fall to EF-40 but for it to fall into the VF range then it does a dis service to the technical aspect of device wear grading standard which we use constantly and in fact is what is published in guides such as PCGS grading guide and other sources like photo grade which use a device wear baseline .

what this does to the market is create rarities of coins in certain grades and causes the value system to be skewed to a certain degree within each series .

take my coin which started this discussion .

the coin exhibits text book EF-45 wear patterns , it did not take long for it to be down stepped because of the couple of dings in the field now the different between an EF-45 and an EF-40 for this particular coin is nominal and not really an issue ,but we all know that the issue becomes much more apparent on the big brothers of this coin .

and if we extend the concept to the 16-D Mercury dime then the difference is huge about 3000.00 by RedBook pricing and we know that that coin in the market trades by demand and RedBook has no adjustment for such market place phenomena.

Having said all that what I'm really trying to say is buy the coin based on the personality of the coin , but grade the coin based on the clinical aspects interjecting as little of that buyer into it as possible .

consistency counts and affects the hobby in more ways than we can know .

Thad while I can appreciate your point the die state of a coin plays significantly into the technical aspect of a coins grade , but mostly and largely in the Mint state grades and ever so much more signifcantly into the very high mint state grades .

the pudding is all in the details of the devices .

you know and I know and most others know all to well how the minute details begin to deteriorate from the first coin struck ,each new set of dies may only produce what could technically be called fully struck coins for about the first 25 or 50 coins before some of the minute detals begin to smooth ,,this is true even in proof production .

as for your coin PCGS is one of the worst IMHO for not grading consistently they are the major player in market grading and that skews their numbers (which by the way I believe is part of their business plan ) to keep pops either low or high depending on the date ,mint and submitter of the coin.

this coin that you have pictured while its only the obverse shot shows a very late die state obverse ,this does not mean that the reverse is the same which was the case with the 22-D /no D ,,thus several different die pairs with only one obverse die displaying no D at all and several different reverses which affect the value of the no D at all obverse die which they were paired with .

but this 1925 , while I know that the die state was not good from the start does show wear on the high points of the devices My grade would be AU-50 PCGS because of their grading and details assessment for a coin which is not a key date and not one generally associated with a die weakness and the 2 seconds which the graders take to determine the grade and morethan likely not sufficiently versed on every date and every series would give this coin based on the obverse alone a VF-35 grade .

Now here is one for you ! LOL

I bought this mint set specifically for this visual and they fall directly into your die state conversation .

these coins were contained within the same mint set what grades would could you give to them .

1991 -P and D Lincoln cents .

OMG at the 1991's! LOLOLOLOLOL

How strange that the P mint coin is worse than the D mint! With Lincolns (all years) the P mint coins are normally superior. The P I'd probably grade between 60-62 and the D mint is a minimum 65. What a funny example of inter-mint set coins you have there!

I gave it a 61 for remaining luster. In hand it might go lower.