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 Replies: 8 / Views: 1,220 |
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Valued Member
United States
218 Posts |
Was browsing the ebay a couple of days ago and I saw an auction that looked very similar to one I'd seen a few days earlier, so I looked at the seller's closed listings and I noticed that it was the exact same set as was listed earlier, so I contacted the seller to see if it had been returned or if it was a new set with stock photos. The seller's responses were unacceptable so I am posting here for all to see and be warned. The following is the text that I sent to ebay when I reported auctions 8375857692 and 8379402623: quote:
Originally posted by The_Cave_Troll to ebay Customer Support Re: bad coin listings
The seller of these two items (8375857692 and 8379402623) is using private auctions to hide the identity of his shill bidder.
I noticed that both auctions had identical photos, (which is impossible with coins unless it is a relisted auction) so I questioned the seller about why he was relisting the set. (Mostly I was checking to see if it had been returned for some reason, since I don't want to buy problem coins). He responded saying that the set was a completely different set and that if I looked closely the photos are different. This was a lie and I told him that his response was unacceptable and that I'd report his auctions as fraud to ebay if he didn't fix it or explain the pictures more satisfactorily. Then he responded that he was sick and had made a mistake. He claimed that what had really happened was that the first listing sold for far less than he had invested in it. He said the winning bidder was a member who understood that he needed to get more for it than he did so he (the winning bidder) is letting him (the seller) resell the coins. He said that this member had extended this courtesy to him in the past and that he'd returned the favor on a number of occasions. He said that he doesn't believe in using a reserve price because that makes the auctions less interesting. The translation is that he has a shill bidder (who he is a shill for as well) and they work together to cheat ebay out of reserve fees and to cheat bidders out of money by artificially inflating the prices of their auctions. All this is covered up through the use of private auctions.
Here is the list of my emails to the seller and his responses verbatim:
My initial email:
quote:
Originally posted by The_Cave_Troll
This auction uses the same pictures that you used in auction #8375857692. Did that buyer back out or are you using generic photos?
His first response:
quote:
Originally posted by seriouscoins
Hi dykstrac,
This is in response to your email inquiry concerning ebay #8379402623 ( Mercury dime set). It is an entirely different set than the one auctioned under #8375857692. If you really examine the coins, you'll see that they are not the same. I NEVER USE GENERIC PHOTOS. As stated, winning bidders receive actual items shown. I did use much of the description format to save myself time, as the sets were quite similar. And, the photos I took are typical shots I use for this type of set. But, as I said, look the coins over good, and you'll see that none are the same. Sorry, for the confusion.
Thank you for your inquiry,
Mike/seriouscoins
My second email:
quote:
Originally posted by The_Cave_Troll
Mike,
Your response is a complete lie, why do you insult my intelligence? I compared the pictures (all 12 of them) side-by-side and they are not only the same coins in the pictures, but they are the same pictures, just being reused. In fact, they have identical file names! Why did you lie about this? All you had to do was ignore my first email and I would have lumped you in with all the other ebay scam artists and moved on with my life, but by responding with a lie you've ****ed me off. If you don't give me a satisfactory response to this email and either remove listing #8379402623 or change the photos I will be forced to spread the word of your dishonesty. I am a member of numerous coin message boards and clubs and I will post a link on each of them to your fraudulent auctions and warn as many people as possible of your scam. I will also be reporting your attempted fraud to ebay pending your response.
Sincerely,
Chris
His second response (now emailing me directly to avoid ebay viewing his messages):
quote:
Originally posted by seriouscoins
Chris,
I'm checking this out now. If what you say is true, I really messed up! I know I took new photos of everything. I just hope the new photos were used, but apparently they weren't?
Sincerely,
Mike
His third response (still direct email):
quote:
Originally posted by seriouscoins
Sorry Chris,
I surely wasn't testing your intelligence. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that all of the coins pictured on both auctions ARE exactly alike. I'm "sincerely" all messed up. I have one heckuva cold, and I've been as sick as a dog. Needless to say, I'm not thinking all that clearly. I did recently auction off a very similar set under ebay auction #8365309765. That set did sell, was piad for, and shipped to the Buyer. I listed this set being auctioned now (8379402623), originally under ebay #8375857692, which is a nicer set than the one that sold the first time. The winning bidder of the second set happened to be a member that I deal frequently with. I told them that I had a lot more invested in the set than what it went for, and they were nice enough to let me relist it. I've done the same for them before. So, you are absolutely right. It is the same exact set. I did add in the description this time though about 3 of the keys being taken out of slabs to be put into the set, so that there would be a much better chance of the set bringing what it should, or close to it, hopefully. I rarely use "Reserve" auctions, because I think putting reserves makes the auctions less interesting. It will sell this time around for whatever it brings. I have over $2,000.00 in it, and it's worth a lot more. If you wnat to call me up about it, feel free. 434-983-4961.
Again, sorry for the confusion.
Mike/seriouscoins
My final response:
quote:
Originally posted by The_Cave_Troll
Mike, Thank you for your explanation.
Chris
At this point I realized what was going on and I decided to contact you instead of continuing with the seller. Thanks for taking care of this cheat. He is ruining ebay for bidders and sellers alike.
Sincerely,
Chris
there are a couple of warning signs that this seller is no good (low feedback, and private listings) so I was wary enough to avoid being cheated, hopefully this will be an appropriate warning to others. Edited by The_Cave_Troll
02/06/2006 6:01 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5953 Posts |
I think he missed the point of an Auction. the selling price is not dependant on what the seller originally paid for the item.
Thanks for the heads up on this.
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Forum Mom
 United States
5877 Posts |
Unfortunately, the auction is still running. I find it hard to believe that the original buyer would have let the seller relist unless it was a buddy who had no intention of purchasing the coins in the first place. Hopefully, ebay will act on your report. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1091 Posts |
What "serious" reason are the "User ID's kept private" on ebay? And of course it follows, What is the legitimate reason some Feedbacks comments are "kept private"? |
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Forum Dad
United States
24173 Posts |
There are legitimate reasons to use private auctions.
1. In the very competitive categories (like DVDs), there are a lot of "bad" sellers that will email bidders on other auctions to peddle their item cheaper. Private auctions prevent these "bad" sellers from interfering with your auctions.
2. Mature stuff. Buyers don't want people knowing what they're buying.
As far as private feedback, I stay away from sellers' that use it.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1529 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by toast
What "serious" reason are the "User ID's kept private" on ebay?
And of course it follows, What is the legitimate reason some Feedbacks comments are "kept private"?
Both have been grossly misued from it's original intentions...  "User ID's kept private" was intended to protect buyers identity when purchasing "sensitive" adult type goods like lingere etc... "Feedback kept private" was to temporarily sheild sellers from unfair comments made as a result of auction/feedback bombing. I always hit the "back button" nowadays whenever I see any of the two in seller's listings. |
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Valued Member
United States
458 Posts |
Nice catch Cave, I do hope you persue this with ebay. Can't really tell if it's a shill or not, but the fact that there are 2 auctions for the same items with the same pics, chases me away--His feedback is not all that bad tho if you study it, unless I am missing something you see that I don't see. Either way, I would stay away from this auction. Hmm I need to perhaps look some more like his other items and read again his neg FB--  . Ok I looked it over closer, I also have run into some of his other auctions at other times. Altho I never purchased from this seller ever, I can't figure out exactly whats wrong (besides using same pics). Are you/he saying it is 2 different sets? BTW, are merc dimes selling for that much?/ wow-- |
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Valued Member
 United States
218 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by CiScO
Nice catch Cave, I do hope you persue this with ebay. Can't really tell if it's a shill or not, but the fact that there are 2 auctions for the same items with the same pics, chases me away--His feedback is not all that bad tho if you study it, unless I am missing something you see that I don't see. Either way, I would stay away from this auction. Hmm I need to perhaps look some more like
his other items and read again his neg FB--.
First his feedback score IS bad! Anything less than 99.8% positive is excessive and reason for concern! This guy has 3.5 times as many negs as would be acceptable (to me) for a seller who is doing what they can to satisfy customers. Also, the majority of this guy's negative/neutral feedback is for sending out cleaned/wizzed coins. Click here to view his filtered feedback. Either he doesn't know how to recognize a cleaned/wizzed coin or he is intentionally selling them as original coins to take advantage of unsuspecting buyers. In either case do you want to deal with that? quote:
Originally posted by CiScO
Ok I looked it over closer, I also have run into some of his other auctions at other times. Altho I never purchased from this seller ever, I can't figure out exactly whats wrong (besides using same pics). Are you/he saying it is 2 different sets? BTW, are merc dimes selling for that much?/ wow--
What is wrong is that this seller and another eBayer are conspiring to increase their profits. Both sellers (seriouscoins and an unknown seller whose identity is hidden by the private auction) are working together to cheat ebay out of reserve fees and to cheat buyers into paying a higher price that they should. When seriouscoins has an auction that is selling for less than he wants then he contacts his ebay friend and tells them to bid on the auction. This is called shill bidding and is expressly forbidden by ebay. The proof is the response that seriouscoins sent me where he explained that the other ebayer was allowing him to relist the coins because the final bid price was too low. What ebayer in their right mind would not force the seller to sell at the final auction price, I know I would. The fact that he is willing to let seriouscoins relist the auction is proof that he never intended to own the coins he was just assisting seriouscoins in getting a better price for them. Seriouscoins then says that he has done the same for the other member in the past! They are conclusively conspiring to artificially increase the hammer price of their auctions. |
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Valued Member
United States
458 Posts |
Ok Cave, I am now convinced after your last post. Obviously you dug into this allot deeper than I did. I only did a "superficial" look at ebays's FB, that was a mistake, I shoulda used toolhaus....That said, I will reiterate that I hope you did report this guy and hopefully ebay will pursue this dude...I will avoid dealing with this guy, Thanks for heads-up. CiScO |
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Replies: 8 / Views: 1,220 |
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Posted 02/06/2006 5:52 pm
