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Need Some Help With My 1887 Six Pence Proof?

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Pillar of the Community
HGK3's Avatar
United States
573 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2020  1:52 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add HGK3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I came across this one recently and have a few questions I was hoping someone might be able to help me with.

First, is there a difference between JEB on the truncation and JEB under the truncation?

Spink uses one for the proof variety and the second for the business strike so I'm wondering if they describe actually different positions of JEB or just a poor choice of descriptive wording?

Second, are there markers or identifiers to distinguish proof from non proof varieties?

This coin has very reflective fields on the obverse, which I am totally unable to capture with my current photographic set up, so I was wondering if there were any other clues to look for?

Thanks for your time.




Need-Some-Help-With-My-1887-Six-Pence-Proof?
Need-Some-Help-With-My-1887-Six-Pence-Proof?
Need-Some-Help-With-My-1887-Six-Pence-Proof?
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
735 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2020  2:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hogarth to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
JEB below (separate from) the truncation is the common variety. JEB on the truncation is scarce.
Your sixpence is currency issue and displaying evident wear from circulation. I don't see anything which might suggest a proof strike.
These sixpences are plentiful and uncirculated specimens can be had quite cheaply.
Edited by Hogarth
08/15/2020 2:09 pm
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PaddyB's Avatar
United Kingdom
945 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2020  2:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PaddyB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
According to "English Silver Coinage" both "on truncation" and "below truncation" occur for both circulation and proof issues of this coin.
Yours is clearly "below truncation" and I can't see it as a proof - the rim is not sharp enough. Even if it were originally, it would be "impaired" now as it has quite a lot of wear, most noticeably on the lions' faces.
Relative scarcities:
Circulation, JEB below trunc is C3, (common)
Proof ditto is S (Seldom)
Circulation JEB on trunc is R3 (Rarer)
Proof ditto is R (Rare)
(I could not find a table clarifying how Rare each of the levels are, but C3 seems to be the most common, C2 and C being less so. There is then N for Normal, S for Seldom and R through to R6 for levels of rarity.)
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HGK3's Avatar
United States
573 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2020  11:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HGK3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks very much for the prompt replies.

I suspected that on and under the truncation were different descriptions as I didn't think they would make such an egregious error, but wanted to make sure.

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ryurazu's Avatar
Australia
1333 Posts
 Posted 08/17/2020  8:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ryurazu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i believe a cameo effect would denote that it is a proof striking, other than that very little is difference.
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PaddyB's Avatar
United Kingdom
945 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2020  06:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PaddyB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A true cameo would denote a proof striking, but here the term is "circulation cameo" where the wear has lightened the portrait to make it stand out from the background. It is quite attractive, but is still wear and does not add value, just eye appeal.
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