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1884 O Morgan Dollar Blue Toners From KS Coffee Can - Opionions Please

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luvmyCAM's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2020  5:20 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add luvmyCAM to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Short version - family friend offers me an old coffee can half full of 90% coins for a fair price. Gentleman's in his mid 80's sharp as a tack, coin shop offered him spot + $3.00 he declined and solicited me.
We spent 3 hours greysheeting all non-junk coins I suggested he send them to ANACS, wasn't keen to that. Offerd him greysheet cash he accepted. Provenance "wife's mother gave them to her in 1960's and have sat in a coffee can in a safe since". I'm a believer.
Can't bring the blue rainbows out on an android but boy are they there.
Almost want to believe the 1881 S is proof like? Opionions welcome.
By the way I did buy all the 90% junk along with the Morgans for fair market. He appreciated the effort I spent showing him auction results, retail vs wholesale, PCGS Coinfacts etc. Sometimes doing right by people pans out :)

1884-O-Morgan-Dollar-Blue-Toners-From-KS-Coffee-Can---Opionions-Please


1884-O-Morgan-Dollar-Blue-Toners-From-KS-Coffee-Can---Opionions-Please

1884-O-Morgan-Dollar-Blue-Toners-From-KS-Coffee-Can---Opionions-Please
1884-O-Morgan-Dollar-Blue-Toners-From-KS-Coffee-Can---Opionions-Please

1884-O-Morgan-Dollar-Blue-Toners-From-KS-Coffee-Can---Opionions-Please
1884-O-Morgan-Dollar-Blue-Toners-From-KS-Coffee-Can---Opionions-Please

1884-O-Morgan-Dollar-Blue-Toners-From-KS-Coffee-Can---Opionions-Please
1884-O-Morgan-Dollar-Blue-Toners-From-KS-Coffee-Can---Opionions-Please
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luvmyCAM's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2020  5:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add luvmyCAM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Waited to long to edit, wanted to get a better shot in on the blue 1881 S showing even toning.
1884-O-Morgan-Dollar-Blue-Toners-From-KS-Coffee-Can---Opionions-Please
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2020  5:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Confused. Are the two reverses in pic #2 in the same position as the two obverses in pic #1? I ask because the final obverse enlargement and the final reverse enlargement seem to be from different positions in the original pics.

This is why it is usually best to show just one coin at a time.
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luvmyCAM's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2020  6:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add luvmyCAM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Frog, can you edit/pull the 1881 S ? I agree it confuses the layout. Thanks.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2020  7:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The '81-S looks nice, but the lighting does not reveal details on the surfaces (especially the open fields), which are dark in these pics.
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fortcollins's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2020  8:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm assuming that:
photos 3 and 4 are the obverse and reverse of the 1881-S
photos 5 and 6 are the obverse and reverse of the first 1884-O
photos 7 and 8 are the obverse and reverse of the second 1884-O

Photos 3 and 4, 1881-S. This is the nicest of the three coins. Like the others, it appears to have had an old cleaning, with some retoning. The obverse has few contact marks of consequence: a few dings on the neck and a fairly evident gouge near "UM" of UNUM. The obverse marks are consistent with MS-64. The reverse has some minor divots near the upper left wreath and some small contact marks in the field east of the eagle's left wing (our visual right). These are consistent with MS-65. From a technical grading perspective, I see the blended grade as MS-64. Eye appeal is problematic. There seems to have been an older cleaning, followed by retoning. This is evident on the rims, on the reverse (note the residue on the eagle's right wing near the first "S" of STATES). The retoning appears unnatural , especially on the rims and reverse. I see a full point eye appeal deduction, with a resulting grade of MS-63. IMHO, the old cleaning on this coin is market acceptable and the toning is not so far off as to cause the coin to be detailed with a 91 code.

Photos 5 and 6, the first 1884-O. This coin shows evidence of minor circulation. On the obverse, this is evident on the cotton blossoms, hair over the ear and above the eye, and bear claws and lower curls. on the reverse, it is evident on the tips of the wings, left talon, tips of the tail feather, bow, and parts of the lower left and right wreaths. I see the coin as a classic slider, with evidence of an old cleaning that was followed by mishandling (note the heavy fingerprinting, especially on the reverse). Classic slider, AU-58, maybe AU details.

Photos 7 and 8, the second 1884-O. The obverse and reverse do not show signs of circulation. the obverse has several contact marks, many of them fairly visible and deep enough to affect the grade. There is a heavy scratch west of the neck, multiple contact marks on the neck and cheek, contact marks west of the nose, and contact marks between the cap and the sixth right star. IMHO, these are consistent with MS-62. The reverse is better. While there are numerous small contact marks on the rim and peripheral lettering, there do not appear to be any deep contact marks on the devices or fields. The reverse is consistent with MS-64. The blended technical grade would be MS-63. Eye appeal is lacking. The coin appears to have had an old cleaning, most evident with the heavy fingerprinting on the reverse. The obverse has a circular stain across the cheek, likely from long-term contact with another coin. I see a full point deduction for eye appeal, with a resulting adjusted grade of MS-62. There is a risk of the coin being detailed because of the older cleaning and environmental damage.
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 Posted 08/29/2020  8:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jmkendall to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Three dollars OVER spot? That was a strong serious offer from a BM shop!

We offer 10 percent back of spot and have more takers than we can process! Though we will dicker if someone knows what they have,but not by too much.

Good on you for giving him a good price, but paying low retail...well...ok.

It is why I tell my kids not to sell to a coin shop when they get my collection!
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2020  8:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cannot reconcile the pics of the 1884-O, so I'll not offer any opinions.
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luvmyCAM's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2020  9:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add luvmyCAM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
fortCollins great knowledgeable breakdown on these coins, had things tossed around like salad not making it any easier. Re-toning aha! I suspected this as 1/3 of the AU and above Morgan commons were taking on a blue hue that I assumed could be from the coffee can or old cleaning retoning. Not all were like this, the Walker Half's were battleship Grey some showing rose patina. Nice time capsule to go through, enjoyed seeing a common collection not picked through. The Morgan series is gaining my curiosity, tough series IMO.
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panzaldi's Avatar
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 Posted 08/30/2020  09:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
well, not the best in eye appeal. they have definitely been stored for a while and not properly for sure but they would most likely grade straight. most look high AU that you are showing here.
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Ploopy's Avatar
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 Posted 08/30/2020  10:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ploopy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 81-S morgan looks natural to me, not cleaned. Cheek looks pretty free of nicks, and same with the eagle's feathers on the reverse. I'd give it a 65. The other 2 morgans are lower MS, around a 62
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fortcollins's Avatar
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 Posted 08/30/2020  10:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Blue toning of silver commonly relates to reaction with potassium ferricyanide. One source is processing photographs. Blue toning like that shown in the last group photo rarely is natural. It's possible, but not common.

EDIT: Just a thought. Was this coffee can ever used to store small quantities of ice melting compounds? They sometimes can contain potassium ferricyanide.
Edited by fortcollins
08/30/2020 10:37 pm
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fenton's Avatar
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 Posted 09/02/2020  7:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fenton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Tough coins to grade. They look like coins that were probably dipped and retoned, and haven't been well handled. I'd say MS-62 for the first, MS-61 for the second, and AU-58 for the third. Of the three, the 81-S has the best shot at a higher grade but I'd be shocked to see it get better than 63.
Edited by fenton
09/02/2020 7:24 pm
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luvmyCAM's Avatar
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 Posted 09/03/2020  07:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add luvmyCAM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the opinions, asked the seller about the coffee can provenance and he smiled and commented "how the heck would I remember that". Something though (compound) caused this blue hue and I tend to figure most radical first (dipping) followed by trace compounds of chemicals in can. Not worth slabbing but their in airtights intended for x-ms stocking's. Studied some slabbed PCGS 1881 and 84 gems blast white for under $150.00 that were stunning to behold, ha the 3 pictured looked malaria stricken next to the gems. When I do get to this series am definitely proceeding with patience and caution, fascinating series IMO pennies and nickels are childsplay in comparison, I am nearly ignorant in the basics of Morgans have started studying and describe it as daunting but very stimulating.
Thanks for input all.
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