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Is This A Coin? Really?

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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
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commems's Avatar
United States
12286 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2020  10:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Also, pardon my ignorance but what does NTLC stand for?

I think "NTLC" was a typo - it was meant to be NCLT or non-circulating legal tender. It's a term that has been in use for decades and is reserved for coins struck by government mints that are not intended to be used for circulation at their face value but are still legal tender with very limited redemption options (sometimes no option!). They are struck for collectors.

Personally, I consider just about all of such pieces to be medals with symbolic historical denominations rather than coins.



Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2020  10:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Does't really work for me - Tasmania is an island state.

Exonumia.
To my way of thinking a coin to be collectible has to be made with the intention of placing it into circulation.
Yes, yes, yes, I do have a few patterns, major and very obvious errors and proofs, so I am not true to my own way of thinking.

But I don't collect exonumia - others may.
CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
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commems's Avatar
United States
12286 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2020  10:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
To my way of thinking a coin to be collectible has to be made with the intention of placing it into circulation.

But not everyone thinks like you! Our hobby is big enough to allow all types of collectors. Regardless of certain opinions, no type of collecting is "bad." Folks should be allowed to collect what they enjoy without criticism.



Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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nss-52's Avatar
United States
54282 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2020  3:00 pm  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the mint makes them, and people buy them, then they will keep making them.
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Australia
1616 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2020  4:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add David Graham to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Justcarl


https://dictionary.cambridge.org/di...english/coin

Although pieces of eight weren't round or even regular so I tend to agree with the notion of government issue that can be used for tender. If a $2000 platinum coin marked as $1 face value will be accepted by a gum-ball machine as a $1 coin then it's a $1 coin. I can't see the Gumball Machine accepting a piece of metal in the shape of australia.
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Australia
1616 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2020  4:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add David Graham to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@sel_69l - I think even coins not intended for circulation are OK if they are no different in weight/size to coins already in circulation which is why they sometimes turn up while noodling.
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fistfulladirt's Avatar
United States
4333 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2020  5:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fistfulladirt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't see anything
When I listen to LED ZEPPELIN...so do my neighbors...
Roll hunting since '77
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16844 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2020  6:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just so this thread still makes sense when the ebay item expires, the coin in question is one of these: Perth Mint redback spider map-of-australia-shaped 1 ounce silver coin 2015.

To qualify as a "coin", a numismatic item must:
- be issued by, for or in the name of an internationally recognized government;
- have a denomination either implicit or explicit;
- be (or have been in the past) legal tender (or whatever the local equivalent of "legal tender" is).

If it does not have all three of those properties, it is not a "coin". But a coin does not have to be:
- actually used as money;
- round;
- made of certain metals or alloys, or even made of metal at all.

So under this definition, the object in question fits the definition:
- It was issued in the name of Australia (with Perth Mint "coins", you do have to check which country it is "from"; when Perth Mint's marketing department invents a new coin, they sometimes use a flag-of-convenience country like Tuvalu if it can't convince the Australian government to issue it.)
- The denomination is 1 dollar. Yes, you'd be a fool to try to spend a 1 ounce silver coin for $1, especially if you paid 4x the bullion price for it. But legally, you can do it.
- It has been gazetted as an officially authorized $1 coin by the Australian government.

Yes, it's gimmicky. Yes, it's aimed at collectors. Yes, it's a shameless money-grab by a mint that made a hugely popular coin (the 2006 Tuvalu red-back spider dollar) and sought, with this object, to try to replicate that popularity. But even given all that, it is, still, a "coin".

Now, just because it's a coin, doesn't mean that you, a coin collector, must like it, or buy it, or consider it a part of the series of coins that you collect. The Perth Mint certainly does not expect that you, an average coin collector, will feel compelled to buy an example of one of every coin that they ever make. They presume that the "gotta collect one of every Australian coin" collector went extinct, long ago. PM's modus operandi is simple: They make it, they market it, and people who like it (for whatever reason) will buy it. Given the coin is listed on the PM website as "sold out", at least 6000 people must have wanted one, for the asking price. That ebay seller in the OP's link is asking AU$99. Given that the coins originally sold for AU$87.20, they're not making a huge profit.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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smokeriderdon's Avatar
United States
3755 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2020  6:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There have been many coins over the years that are not circles. This is no different. If you dont like and wont collect, hey, thats your prerogative. I find it rather cool. Not that I would drop nearly 100 bucks on it, but its cool. And it IS a coin.
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DirtyHarry's Avatar
Germany
141 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2020  9:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DirtyHarry to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
According to the Perth Mint, this is an uncirculating coin, and they define it as follows:

Quote:
Uncirculating coins (also referred to as numismatic or collector coins) are coins intended for coin collectors and the souvenir/gift market rather than for the payment of goods or services. These coins are produced in a range of precious and base metals.

Uncirculating coins are legal tender in Australia and are redeemable at their face value at the Reserve Bank of Australia (other Australian banks and deposit taking institutions may redeem the coins but are not under a legal obligation to do this) or at the relevant Mint that produced the coin. Uncirculating coins are sold at a premium to their face value to cover the cost of materials, production, distribution and sale of the coins and to provide the Mints with a profit on their activities. As legal tender, uncirculating coins must bear on the obverse the approved effigy of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.

Circulating coinage on the other hand, is minted in Australia by the Royal Australian Mint.

As for myself, I recognize the difficulty of formulating an absolutely universal definition of what should be called "coin" and what should be called something else. Surely, most definitions I read cover the vast majority of numismatic items, but for many definitions out there I can think of historical exceptions escaping the rule.

In this case I agree with calling them non-circulating legal tender coins. No problem with that. And I also think they have a completely different purpose than that of circulating coinage, making them essentially different.
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barryg's Avatar
United States
5860 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2020  4:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add barryg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
1. It is always overpriced to heaven, even if its precious metal like Gold or Platinum, expect the issue price to be over 50% above metal value and often 2 or 3 times.

2. They usually have no resale market and they end up being worth their metal content only.

3. They have no practical use beyond being an expensive gee gaw/conversation piece, they do not really fulfil the role of money. yes I know we can spend hundreds and thousands on coins that may only have a few dollars worth of silver in them, but they are at least real money, historic and interesting - this type of thing not so much so.

4. They are just ugly.


I agree with everything Princetane said (well, except perhaps for #4), but I still don't regret purchasing my "Fortuna Redux" cylindrical "coin":

Is-This-A-Coin?--Really?

And this despite the fact that it's probably worth half what I paid for it back in 2013 (even with the price of silver going way up since then). As an investment, it was a truly horrible idea.

But I still love looking at it!
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