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 Replies: 29 / Views: 5,601 |
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New Member
United States
12 Posts |
OK, one of the reasons I became a coin collector is because I love history. One of the historical periods I find the most fascinating is the WWII period, especially in Europe. I have wanted to begin collecting and put together a set of German coins from the Third Reich period and the ensuing allied occupation of Germany. I was hoping someone could suggest some reading material about how to grade these coins...and if there is any books about there about collecting German coins from this era. I have the Krause World Coins of the 20th Century book...but that doesn't have a lot of specific information in it. Also, I have been looking for a source to purchase German coins and I have been unable to find a decent source. I would prefer to look at higher end coins...no lower than XF but I would really like BU examples of many of them. The first part of this process is to learn to grade the coins (hence my search for books), but I also need to find a dealer. The only online source I have been able to find is ebay and I'm afraid a lot of it appears to be cleaned junk. So, any help would be really appreciated. Thanks! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1429 Posts |
Welcome to the forum.
www.germancoins.com as well as a few dealers on vcoins.com which should have extensive available inventory.
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New Member
 United States
12 Posts |
Thanks, I will check those sites out. I was referred here from Coin Talk and told to talk to a member named Zaggy. I was told he has done some research into this topic and might be able to point me in the right direction. I couldn't figure out if this forum had a PM option so I thought I would just make a general post. Plus, I figured others might have some useful information. So, once again, Thanks!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1429 Posts |
I also have a bunch of German State crowns listed on ebay. |
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Valued Member
67 Posts |
Real BU German coins are expensive :D You chose an expensive hobby for yourself haha. The Germans are big coin collectors.
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Valued Member
United States
327 Posts |
No kidding. You want a challenge? Try collecting Weimar republic coins, especially Rentenpfennig or Notgeld coinage. Rentenpfenning in circulated average aren't too hard to find, but really nice ones are difficult and notgeld are near-impossible. Expensive, too  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
SPQR- just why is it that coins from the Weimar Republic are so valuable? Was it that the new Rentencoinage was needed so badly to battle the hyper inflation of the time that none were saved? Or was it that the coinage was melted during the Nazi era due to it being from a time in German history that the Nazis deemed "immoral and degenerate?"
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New Member
United States
42 Posts |
I am an avid collector of German modern and post-medieval German state coins. The best place to buy them is from German or Swiss ebay OR better, from Kunker-- a large German Numismatic Dealer and Auction House based in Osnabrueck, Germany. On the other hand, depending on the exchange rate, you might do better on American ebay or via Bowers and Merena or Heritage world coin auctions. But you might be aware that National Socialist (Nazi) period coinage is generally not much appreciated in Germany. The law is open to interpretation, but there is a law forbidding sale of items bearing the swastika in Germany except for academic purposes or with a permit. These coins are plentiful and not usually of more than historical interest. The Weimar coins, depending on which ones and their condition, may be worth more because this is a valued period of history in Germanophone lands and fewer were minted. |
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Valued Member
67 Posts |
Yes I agree, Na_zi = verboten
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1238 Posts |
Guess the difference between German and American collectors of nazi coins is that here in Germany hardly anybody would specifically focus on them. They would be part of, say, a "1871-today" collection or a "Mark currency" collection, but not that many people here find nazi coins so fascinating that they would collect only those. Does not have anything to do with the law; in Germany you sure can buy or sell nazi coins, with or without swastika.
Christian
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New Member
United States
42 Posts |
I disagree a bit with the previous response. I also have lived in Germany for some time and now live in a neighboring country. I know many collectors in the German-speaking world who collect coins since 1871-- myself included. Again, the Nazi period is particularly undesirable for most Germans and their neighbors (German law which does truly exist but is often not enforced or enforceable not withstanding) AND the coins, again are so common that they are not worth much. You will note that Kuenker, one of the largest coin dealers in Germany, explicitly states in its website that among other common coins, they are not interested in buying Third Reich coins. So, if you are a history buff, geh mal weiter! But don't expect great returns in value over time.
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1238 Posts |
Quenton, I have no idea what law you are referring to. Since you have lived in Germany, you may know that the regulations regarding symbols of anticonstitutional organizations (§ 86, 86a StGB) do not apply in a context like the one we are discussing here (buying/owning/selling coins). Now if you produce or sell a modern medal with a swastika, that is usually punishable indeed.
Apart from that, I agree - as I wrote before, not many people here focus on nazi coinage, and most pieces from that time are common. (By the way, Künker simply provides a list of very "common" coins that they won't buy, including some nazi coins, but also several pieces from the Federal Republic, from Canada and the US.) Nazi Germany just did not make many commems, and the few that they issued have relatively high mintages - compared to Weimar Republic, that is.
Christian
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New Member
United States
42 Posts |
Dear Christian,
I agree with you that at present what matters is the political use of fascist symbols and that many people ethically can sell and trade all kinds of historical items for academic or artistic purposes. However, the law that I referred to originally was meant quite concretely as the popular website Webgeek describes and as I was taught by a Munich-born and raised attorney who prosecuted one numismatic dealer for displaying Nazi war medals in a shop window within walking distance of the Dachau Concentration Camp about 20 years or so ago. The website reads: " The answer to this question (of whether one can display historical or newly made items with symbols of the Third Reich) largely depends on the intended use of the swastika symbol. As a matter of public law, the post-war German law codes prohibit the display of a swastika in any form or fashion, even if used satirically or as part of an anti-Nazi political statement. This law is generally applied to the specific five-by-five grid swastika design used during the Nazi era, however. Several religious organizations have petitioned the German government for permission to display other forms of the symbol..."
The main point is, I agree with you, that Nazi coins are all too common and less interesting than other coins-- plus that it is a really rotten period of history for all concerned that had, to my and many others' taste, abominable aesthetics!
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Valued Member
Canada
122 Posts |
I thought Germany was all right with the swastika as a Hindu/Buddhism religious symbol  I heard a story of someone religious in that respect (where the swastika was a symbol of luck/prosperity/welfare and harmony/balance) with the symbol on his roof. I agree that selling Nazi coins within walking distance of Dachau was probably in bad taste, but I disagree that people shouldn't be able to buy/sell/trade their WWII coins. Edited by rogers
12/05/2008 12:54 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1238 Posts |
Once again, it is not illegal to sell coins with a swastika, not even near the Dachau KZ site. Basically even historic medals are OK. But you would run into problems if you offered, for example, a modern swastika or SS medal. Another problem is that some coin dealers put enlarged photos of their coins (including Nazi Germany pieces) online - and some overzealous local DA may find that anticonstitutional. Fortunately a DA is not a judge ...
Some time in the 1980s or 90s, Falun Gong used the swastika on various occasions in Germany. First they did have problems with the authorities. Sure for them is not a nazi sign of course, but I suppose they did not actually expect most people here to say, oh what a nice symbol of luck. Anyway, such uses of swastikas are OK too.
Christian
Edited by chrisild
12/05/2008 6:06 pm
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Valued Member
Australia
432 Posts |
Huh? Zaggy? Thats Me! What can I do help? Firstly, I've been a bit slow to reply due to the fact that its that time of the year; Assignments due, Code to be written, Exams and Presentation of this semesters Major Work... So, after I finish this last report, I can get back into the REAL mission of Third Reich Numismatic research and working on that paper! Now, I'll start by steering well clear of the Politics here :)... My interest in this period is for the reason that there is very little out there about it, a number of weird little mysteries and a lot of falicies and half-truths! To me, Kuenker have been very helpful (they've sent me the odd thing); I must admit I havent seen the part of the site that states they're not interested in Third Reich pieces, but they regularly sell quite a few higher grade examples (Luthers, Schillers, Potsdam mit Datum, the really low mintage nominals, the odd PP Silver 2/5RM and Probens). So if the site says that, I must suggest they're talking about bulk lots or something? Still, Kuenker would be a good place to look for high grade, hard to find things (1939G 1RM, Luther Mule, the less common RKK Mzz/jahrs). http://www.kuenker.deFranquinet is also a good place to look for premium coins, http://www.franquinet.de - Guy seems to trade in the higher end of the market, but he is VERY knowledgable, so when you want to find a rarity and want it to be GENUINE, he's the man to see... I've bought stuff off him in the past, and while payment was a bit of a mission (because I don;t have a Credit Card that worked in Germany!), his service is great. Now, these two places are definately the higher end of town, so if the budget doesn't stretch or your after the odd bargain, try Luke - http://www.luckylukeonline.com/Luke specialises in Third Reich pieces for the American Market, and while he may not carry all of the premium rarities at all times (Say you want that 1939G 1RM, It might take him a while to find you a good one), he does supply really good coins around the XF-aUNC for most types - I've bought ALOT of Luke, so I can personally vouch for him too... next is ebay - full of overpriced coins! Third Reich coins are (in general) NOT RARE; the allies did not 'round them all up and destroy them' as people will try and tell you, and the 1945 Russian (and later Allied Proclamation Nr.2) effort to require all Gold and Silver coins to be turned in was a complete failure! WELL over 70% of the Silver coins minted under the Third Reich were unaccounted for after the war; so there are a LOT of them out there! And now, last piece of advice, unless we have specific questions is; BU?!?! You're very keen! Thats going to cost you $$$... For the silver pieces, I'd be more interested in aiming for EF, trying to get EF+ where you can (for reasonable $$$) but settling for VF on those hard to get pieces - its the way I've gone. Also, learn what Wert/Jahr/Mzz are the rare ones - Like I picked up a EF 1945E 10Rpf for a BARGAIN the other day - as bargains can be had; so go find yourself a recent copy of Jaeger - Die deutschen Muenzen seit 1871 or Schoen's deutcher Muenzkatalog if you have trouble with the Jaeger... I've found very little use for the Krause with the exception of the Proben illustrations. |
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Replies: 29 / Views: 5,601 |
Posted 11/30/2008 9:15 pm
