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2013 White Mountain Quarter With Possible DDR And Bumps.

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 Posted 11/11/2020  6:02 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add My2cent to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
The leaves on the top of the coin has extra details
I also see a few bups on the tree farthest to right of the foreground. Figure it is die but I wouldn't like the opinion of others. Thanks!
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 11/12/2020  3:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like Machine Doubling. On these the doubled dies are on the central area of the design on both sides. Not on the outer areas of the devices.
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 Posted 11/13/2020  12:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add My2cent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So it is always on both sides of the coin in the central area of the coin?
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 11/13/2020  11:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Those are the areas where they can appear. It is rare to have it on both sides of the coin. Usually just on side is affected. Machine Doubling often is seen on both sides of the coin.
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 Posted 11/13/2020  3:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add My2cent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay now I'm confused, so you're saying that there's already a confirmed doubled die with these coins but it is on both sides and this one is not a double die because it's not on both sides but doubled dies aren't normally on both sides, Machine Doubling is?
So even though the lines don't look the same as Machine Doubling does, it's not?...
Explain it to me one more time, I'm sorry. That makes no sense to me.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 11/13/2020  6:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The doubled dies (not your coin) are found on the obverse and reverses of the States and the ATB Quarters on the central areas of the design. Doubled ears and left side of mottos.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
On the reverse the center of the devices can be affected.
IE:
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
To see what area to look at and what to find, check out doubleddie.com for the years.mints/designs to find out what to look for.
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 Posted 11/13/2020  7:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add My2cent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay but wexler's also explains how the hubbing process is only done once nowadays so wouldn't it be possible for that single die to possibly be doubled anywhere on the coin? Considering they used to use two, one for the outside details and one for the inner details and now they don't?
Even the first picture you posted on here the top says says 98% of the time. There for it is possible, And if you think about it then you have to admit the doubling is no closer to the edges than the words in God we trust, or e pluribus that are doubled most times. I hope I am making sense to someone.
Edited by My2cent
11/14/2020 03:40 am
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Petespockets55's Avatar
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 Posted 11/14/2020  08:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Considering they used to use two, one for the outside details and one for the inner details and now they don't?

Not correct.
You are still a little confused about how the die making process worked/works. During the dual hubbing era, they would use the same working hub for both hubbings (impressions) to the working die, not "inner details" and "outer details".
As I understand the die making process, the working hub had (and has) a slight convex shape to the center to make it easier to transfer the design.

It used to be that during the second hubbing a doubled die might be created to an obverse or reverse die. If, and only if, an obverse die with doubling was paired with a reverse die with doubling would a coin be produced with true hub doubling on both sides. It didn't happen very often.

With the single squeeze era we are in now, the same convex shape comes into play in the center of the dies. There have been observers watching the die making process that saw a technician stop the single squeeze process before completing the die, make an adjustment to the alignment and complete the process, creating the working die. This "Halting" has the potential to create a doubled die.

Since the the center of the working hub is convex, the center would have come into contact with the die surface first. So the center is usually the area affected by doubling.

(Although, with modern Lincoln cents the designers initials can be affected and show signs of doubling.)

I tend to over explain things but, I hope this helps.

Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups.
We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
Edited by Petespockets55
11/14/2020 08:42 am
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 11/14/2020  12:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now hubs are complete with the mintmark:
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
Note about these images:
1. They are positives. (They look just like the coins the dies strike)
2. Note the Lugs on the die. This keeps the alignment to match up easier.
On dies they are negatives:
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
Note the center image is the hub with the positive design (like the coins)
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
Note the lower image it is a die with the negative, to strike up a positive coin.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.

On the dies, they remove the lugs and shape the dies to specs.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.

The issue with doubled dies are during the hub process, on the older dies they would hub in a three or more strike process. Today with the single squeeze dies, On the class 9 doubled dies are affected by a slight die miss alignment, but when full pressure is added. The first kiss, then now snaps into the correct position. Thus all the doubling will remain on the central area, but on all the other areas, the doubling is altered to the correct alignment. Thus just the central areas of the dies are affected. The more the misalignment is, the stronger the hub doubling will be on the centers of the design.

As mentioned before, if they have to back off and start again, then they have a different class of doubled dies. They will look more like the older style dies. There is one that I know of that has that issue:
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
The doubling on the devices looked like this:
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
Note this one is the only one with the devices affected on the outer areas. Most are class 9 doubled dies on these quarters on the States and ATB from 1999 forwards.
Hope this helps? If not, ask another question.

I've heard that in order to rest the hub process, they have to have a supervisors key to over ride this. So they are not supposed to happen with that lock out provision. (They probably just recycle the bar stock)
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.


Edited by coop
11/14/2020 1:04 pm
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 Posted 11/14/2020  10:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add My2cent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am going to post a new topic about a dime I have and would like it if you could check it out. Let me know if it's possible this is what you are talking about
Valued Member
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 Posted 11/15/2020  01:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add My2cent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The two of you are making sense separately but I'm trying to put them together and it is confusing me even more.
I can't tell if you guys are actually saying the same thing or not.
Coop, the pictures that you posted here have the same placement and looks on the letters as some I have shown in the past and was told that I was wrong.
I get told it has to be in the middle of the coin but the words are not any closer to the central area than I have shown on my coins and was still incorrect.
Is there any hope for me? Should I just give it up?
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 Posted 11/15/2020  09:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Stick with it.

Look at each set of individual images slowly and study the description Coop has included. Understand what he has desribed before going to the next set.

You will have an ah-ha monent when some of it hits home.
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups.
We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2020  5:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 1999-S Proof DDO quarter is the only one known to have doubling like that. All the rest of the quarters from 1999-2021 are confined to the earlobe and left side of the motto areas. The reverses are just the central areas of the devices. Seem like the wider the coin, the more central areas are affected. On the Cents we see a wider spread pattern on some of them. Dimes are have an even more centralized design area affected:
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
Nickels also have a close area affected on the reverses:
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
2013-White-Mountain-Quarter-With-Possible-DDR-And-Bumps.
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 Posted 11/15/2020  9:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add My2cent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay, so how old would the coin have to be in order to have the old style doubling?
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