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Unidentified Coin (Maybe Courland?)

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 Posted 12/08/2020  12:15 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add spanish to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Good evening from Spain!
This coin weights 2'60 grs and has a diameter of 2'3cm.
I would be grateful if you could identify this copper coin.
A friend told me that the lion rampant reversed is the emblem of Courland in Latvia (which goes with the moustache).
Thanks a lot for your help!

Unidentified-Coin-Maybe-Courland?
Unidentified-Coin-Maybe-Courland?
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 12/08/2020  9:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@spanish, that is an interesting piece and thanks for posting it.

I agree that the shield has some resemblance to the arms of Courland and Semigallia and the small inner shield with the three stars also seems to be a good fit for Latvia. Unfortunately, I'm not finding an exact fit. Hopefully someone else here will have better luck than I have.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 12/09/2020  02:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gincoin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Perhaps it's from the Southern Netherlands, about the size of an oord.
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 Posted 12/09/2020  07:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree that coppers from that part of the world are a good avenue to pursue. Spanish Netherlands coins often show up in Spanish auctions as "colonies" coins, so I assume they also show up in dealers, etc. That portrait does not look like any seen on Brabant coins, but there were a lot of smaller principalities issuing coins.
My other thought was maybe a beat up counting token if the arms cant be matched to any known place.
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 Posted 12/09/2020  09:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add spanish to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks you all for your help!
I think I got it!
https://www.ma-shops.com/monetarium...yZB3jxIz8giA
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 Posted 12/09/2020  11:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gincoin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think that ruler matches
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 Posted 12/09/2020  12:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add spanish to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe you're right! The shield is not exactly the same. Anyway, I think that I've found the good way.
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 Posted 12/09/2020  1:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add spanish to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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 Posted 12/09/2020  2:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gincoin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
http://www.duiten.nl/gronsveld.html


Quote:
1: Coat of arms of Bronckhorst (lion rampant to the left or to the right).
2: Coat of arms of Batenburg (Andrew's cross with dry shear scissors in the faces).
3: Coat of arms of Gronsveld (three spheres).


https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judoc...rg-Gronsveld
Edited by Gincoin43
12/09/2020 2:19 pm
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 Posted 12/09/2020  3:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add spanish to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes! Thanks a lot!
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 Posted 12/09/2020  10:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great research on this one!
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 Posted 12/10/2020  12:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gincoin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was curious as to how they knew https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces158319.html was a counterfeit, and while I never found a precise answer for that I they text under his brother Joost, gave a description of their coins from these two sources,
W. van den Nieuwenhof, series of articles entitled "contributions to the numismatics of Gronsveld" appeared in the magazine de Beeldenaar
JPJAM van Daalen, The coins of the county of Gronsveld, part II, 1964, history of Gronsveld.


Quote:
Several members of the Bronckhorst family have minted coins in Batenburg and also in Gronsveld.
The coinage in Gronsveld covers a period of more than 300 years. Although most small counties had all discontinued their minting around 1495, Gronsveld (and Reckheim) continued to mint until the beginning of the 18th century. [1] The coinage started under the rule of Jan II van Gronsveld (1375-1386) and became more extensive after Dirk I van Bronckhorst-Batenburg (Anholt) . His second son, Hendrik, continued the coinage. Dirk heer van Honnepel 1493-1508 , Hendrik's successor, discontinues the coinage. Only 4 coins are known about him. [2]
The coinage is again intensively started by Jan van Bronckhorst-Batenburg lord van Gronsveld 1508-1559 .

There are no known coins of Joost van Bronckhorst. Philip , the king of Spain, as sovereign of the Netherlands, banned the circulation of coins of Batenburg, Thorn, Recheim, and Gronsveld in 1577 and 1578.

His brother and successor Jan van Bronckhorst Count of Gronsveld 1588-1617 managed to recognize his right to coin at the Westphalian kreitz. Under Jan Gronsveld coins were again minted, including liards ( ears ), a copper coin worth Two Cents . The name of the earpiece has been preserved in the phrase having choked his last earpiece . Coinage was finally stopped in 1719.


I can find nothing on these coins in English, if you want a definitive answer as to who is on that coin you will need to look at French or Dutch sources. But I am comfortable assuming this was issued by a Lord of Gronsveld, with the reverse being some varient of baron de Batenburg, though They had several other possessions including Batenburg, Anholt, Gronsveld and Rimburg.

That counterfiet was also minted in Recheim so that might also be a place to look.
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 Posted 12/10/2020  11:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At least for Reckheim which had similar practices, one can find some references in English. I think this may have been referenced on another thread here on an unidentified European coin that turned out to be from this place.
https://en.numista.com/forum/topic61995.html
Edited by tdziemia
12/10/2020 11:52 pm
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 Posted 12/11/2020  02:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gincoin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ahh but that page is referencing a dutch website here:https://p5mtz3iu7l2v6zf2q5jgc7edgm-...eckheim.html

It seems that most lowland countries end up being subsumed by other countries in english references at least in my limited experience.
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