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European ? | Imitation Spanish 2 Escudos

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wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2008  12:39 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This one looks familier , like a hammered coin , appears to say philip.Is it a fake?Is it possible to tell from a photo?

Image: European-?-|-Imitation-Spanish-2-Escudos 9a43_1.jpg
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Image: European-?-|-Imitation-Spanish-2-Escudos 9972_1.jpg
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Edited by Sap
01/24/2009 06:45 am
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2008  1:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry the picture is too small to tell.
Member
wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2008  3:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Its all I have for now.I took a chance and bought it on line from an estate auction.Its familer in a way on one side,the listing says it has Phillip on it but those were roman?
This one looks English on the familer side,i agree the photo is too small.
I didnt pay much for it,worth taking a chance sometimes I thought.

Any educated guesses would be most welcome
Edited by wetglaswegian
12/09/2008 4:10 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
645 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2008  6:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DCH to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spanish Colonial 2 Escudos, 1700? Looks like Lima? mint.
Need much better pictures and weight to authenticate.
The green stuff on it makes me suspicious, unless it's PVC.....
Member
wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2008  6:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Its sold as a coin,gold coloured metal.Im very wary but as I said I didnt pay much and am protected if its an obvious fake.
When it arrives ill get better pictures and weight if it isn't obviously a counterfeit.
I hadnt noticed any green?
Pillar of the Community
United States
645 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2008  6:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DCH to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It may be from the compression, but it looks like green stuff when I blow up the pictures.
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wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2008  7:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I cant help but think its a fake but its not being sold in a scam like manner I can see.If I pay via credit card I should be protected but id only be upset if its blatently obviously a fake as the seller has decent comments history and not coins,his story fits not knowing what it is.
Its Christmas come early if its genuine.


Quick update here , the seller confirmed item was mailed.Could be here in the next few days.
Edited by wetglaswegian
12/10/2008 2:19 pm
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wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2008  1:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi guys , I got the coin in question today.Normally I can tell right away if somethings been faked.I knew on this occasion id be looking for something heavier than it looked for starts.
My initial reaction was that its in alarmingly good condition , hardly any wear and tear.Everything appears much clearer than the photo supplied showed.
The "green" stains do not exist , its been a trick of the camera and shadows.The coin is actually very bright if a little tarnished.
Its slightly smaller than a US nickel,just mm's from being the same,its slightly less thick than a nickel but again not by much.

It weighs 4.8 grams

Opinions please, is it a fake or is it authentic ?

Image: European-?-|-Imitation-Spanish-2-Escudos IMG_2009.jpg
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Image: European-?-|-Imitation-Spanish-2-Escudos IMG_2010.jpg
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Member
wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2008  3:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Arghhhhhhhh I cant find anything exactly like it to compare with.Ive found vaguely similar but nothing exact.The side with the cross looks correct , weight is in the ballpark , the more I look at it under a magnifier..im almost certain it could be gold.
Ive done a magnet test , seems to me id know gold when I see it..that deep warm glow where its worn a little , soft look about it.
Im getting carried away and hope somebody can put me out my misery , this is no way to spend a saturday afternoon or its a fantastic way to spend any day ,..how can I know for sure if its gold for starters?


Im off out to visit my local coin expert/dealer , I got to know.

Closed...bah my own research is leading me to think its a fake albeit a good fake, a good fake of what though?doesn't look like a phillip v 2 esc coin ive seen on line from 1700 or any other time.
I also noticed there was or is a fad for faking these , pirates treasure eh? Didnt know that til tonight..im swaying towards fake just on how I got it.Ive no real reason other than I see now these were widely faked,chances are this is too.
Still looks like a genuine coin though,slight wear in the right places looks natural.
Edited by wetglaswegian
12/13/2008 5:37 pm
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KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2008  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi,
You got me curious...did the dealer test it for gold?
Or, do you have the diameter of the coin?
That might provide some clues, since gold is so much denser than other coining metals.
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wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2008  6:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi , no the dealer was closed at 3pm , I was too late.
Ill take some more pictures of interesting points , its slightly smaller than a US nickel and slightly thinner.
If it is a fake its a really good fake.


Image: European-?-|-Imitation-Spanish-2-Escudos 1.jpg
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Image: European-?-|-Imitation-Spanish-2-Escudos Untitled2.jpg
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Edited by wetglaswegian
12/13/2008 6:17 pm
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wwhitman's Avatar
United States
1415 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2008  6:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wwhitman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Do you have a local college or university.
If yes, go to the chemistry lab. Get someone to do a density/specific gravity on the coin.
That would be helpful. And raise your interest to new highs.
I'm vote as of now goes to real.
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manila galleon trade's Avatar
Spain
1361 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2008  6:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manila galleon trade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like you hit gold!
It's a 2 spanish escudo Felipe V 1700 Lima, looks authentic. Check size and weight.

Material: gold 917
Size: 22 mm.
Weight: 6.76 gr.
Obverse: PHILIPPVS V DEI G HISPANIARUM (Felipe V por la gracia de Dios rey de las Españas) around the Cross of Jerusalem with Castles and Lions.
Reverse: ET INDIARVM REX AÑO around 2 pillars of Hercules

Sample Picture:
European-?-|-Imitation-Spanish-2-Escudos
Member
wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2008  6:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i keep looking for anything to show me its a fake , I cant see anything and when I look at it closely it feels like I'm looking at the real deal.
I weighed it at 4.9gms just now and a nickel which is larger and thicker weighs 5g on the same scale and settings.
Minimal weight difference yet noticable size difference.

Im sure there must be a college nearby but for tonight its still a huge question..getting bigger.

I want to believe its real but human instinct tells me I aint that lucky , then again if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck..
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KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2008  7:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm glad people who know a lot about these coins dropped by.
Just a caveat that measured weight can vary a lot by the accuracy of the scale.
Such as spring-loaded postal scale, versus jeweler's carat scale...so I'm hoping for gold!
With an accurate scale, you can perform a density test and get some confirmation.

That said, if your scale is reasonably accurate (+/- .1 gr), and you're reading 4.97 grams, and the coin is significantly thinner/smaller than a nickel, that's a good sign! As a comparison, a 19mm penny-sized gold half-sovereign weighs ~3.99 grams.
Pillar of the Community
United States
645 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2008  7:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DCH to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks cast to me, and it's much too light at 4.8g, these should be ~6.75g
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