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European ? | Imitation Spanish 2 Escudos

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wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2008  7:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I cant thank you guys enough , I'm really on the fence falling into a big field of believing now.
It was part of an estate auction and labelled under old scottish coin , thats what attracted me to it, the idea it was Scottish , I knew it wasnt but also didnt know what it was.
I knew I was in the ballpark weight wise from on line research but couldnt find a picture of the actual coin , big thanks to you guys for helping and pointing me right at it.
I figured any minimal weight difference could be down to somebody having "trimmed" the coin at some point for profit , id read that old gold coins were subject to this happening.
DCH how can I tell if its cast ?
Image: European-?-|-Imitation-Spanish-2-Escudos IMG_2016.jpg
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Edited by wetglaswegian
12/13/2008 7:43 pm
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manila galleon trade's Avatar
Spain
1361 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2008  7:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manila galleon trade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
a jeweler or a pawnshop can tell if it is real gold by the touch and the feel of it. Of cource if you really want it 100% he has to do some testing.

but without seeing it and touching it, it's so hard to tell a good fake from the real mccoy just from pictures.

From your last picture looks a bit thick for this kind of coin.
The weight and the thickness is questionable.

It is a nice piece even if its fake.
Edited by manila galleon trade
12/13/2008 8:24 pm
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wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2008  7:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Manilagalleontrade , I know what you mean about touch and feel , everybody ive let look at it with a magnifier glass and a jewelers 10x magnifier all agree it looks like gold , even the worn places have that burnished soft glow.

DCH reckons its cast but that would leave signs and I see none of any moulds around the edges , it looks like its been trimmed of a little around the edges and that explains weight loss.

I will let an expert see it soon as I can but the more I look the bigger believer I am.
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manila galleon trade's Avatar
Spain
1361 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2008  8:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manila galleon trade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Keep us posted as this is an interesting piece specially if you got it cheap. (depends on what is cheap to you of cource) :)
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KurtS's Avatar
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5318 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2008  8:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For what it's worth...I spent yesterday looking at hundreds of gold artifacts, and that coin certainly has the right color!
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wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2008  8:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Im very hopeful and keep a healthy optimism alongside a dark cloud of wondering if I'm really that lucky.
I paid $10 for it and a buck or two shipping.At the worst I have a very well executed fake and lost 10 bucks.

Ive nothing so far to make me think 100% one way or the other..but out of interest , if it is real , what kind of value am I looking at for my $10?

Hopefully ill find a jewelers or coin dealer open tomorrow , its sunday but so close to xmas it would be silly to be closed.Being closed today at 3pm was a bit strange too I thought this close to xmas and all its spending.
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manila galleon trade's Avatar
Spain
1361 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2008  8:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manila galleon trade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For 10 bucks even if its fake its still a good buy for a very nice coin.
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wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2008  8:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It just looks and feels too much like gold for me to think its not , look at the shadows cast in the pictures , more hexegon than round , like its been trimmed, why trim a fake?

The $10 price tag is confusing , yes , but thats how auctions go sometimes if you dont label the item right.It was listed as an old scottish coin, no mention of material or spain.
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KurtS's Avatar
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5318 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2008  11:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
For 10 bucks even if its fake its still a good buy for a very nice coin.
The surface certainly looks gold, and if you can pull off a SG test, I think you'll know for sure.
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wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2008  01:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It does look like Gold KurtS , the odd thing ive noticed is its taken seriously until I mention what ive paid , even my own brother scoffed but admits he wouldnt know if its fake or not.
I agree that my gut feeling was it has to be a fake , my head is telling me theres nothing to indicate a fake.

Casting was suggested and I asked for any information but am left guessing id see signs of a mold around the edge somewhere , I dont.

Fact is it wasnt a widely publicised auction and it was listed incorrectly into the bargain.Maybe others suspecting a fake at such a low start bid just didnt bid,i dont know.
Other items at the auction were very eccentric and all had a low start except paintings.
That seemed to be the main attraction and all had active bidding.

This was the one and only coin in the whole auction , described as old scottish coin,id never have looked twice except it said it was scottish.
Im firmly in the "how could anyone sell it for $10" camp but I'm also agreeing with a lot of whats been said today , it does look like the real deal gold wise.Would a fake be made out of gold?Weight issues are not conclusive for me as my item looks like its had a haircut at sometime.Uneven edges and doesn't look round really.
Is that where the missing gram went?

There was a question on thickness and comparing it to thinner than a nickel wasnt ideal.Its almost exactly the same thickness of a 1c , id say exactly but using the naked eye it looks right.Much closer to a penny than a nickel,nickel looks twice as thick now I look again.

I dont want to tests that would mark the coin in any way , not unless its fairly certain its not authentic.Hopefully the coin place will open on a sunday , if not monday I guess.
Not much else to be learned unless anyone can suggest a sure fire way ok knowing its gold or not , is there a definitive way of knowing its cast ?
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KurtS's Avatar
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 Posted 12/14/2008  02:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I dont want to tests that would mark the coin in any way.
Right--nobody should scratch the coin, because a simple SG test won't harm the coin at all. It's a quick calculation between the weight dry and the weight suspended in distilled water. It takes all of 5 minutes; I'd do it for you if you were local, and you would know for certain--because it's highly unlikely any fake will simulate 22K gold density (17.7) In the meantime, do you have a metric ruler...can you measure the coin in milimeters (diameter/thickness)?
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wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2008  02:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ive been looking for my tape measure , give me a few minutes and ill do precise measurements.

I get 2mm thick and at its widest point the coin is 3/4 inch.Its not perfectly round and is smaller at points across.

Ill get a better measuring device tomorrow , this is a scientific steel ruler and has every measurement imagineable.Its hard on the eyes counting the mm's but looks just a hair over a half inch which is around the 20-21 mm mark
Edited by wetglaswegian
12/14/2008 02:54 am
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KurtS's Avatar
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5318 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2008  02:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, that's basically the size of a half-sovereign, as 0.75" = 19.05mm
Looking at the specs for half sovereigns, I see these are .9167 gold, 19mm, and weigh 3.9940 gr.
You also said it's thinner than a nickel (2mm), so I'd say your chances are looking good.
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wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2008  03:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Im gonna call it a night KurtS , I want to thank you for your help and support.
Its definately thinner than a nickel , its about the same as a 1c , I dont know why I didnt reference a penny , I just reached for the nearest coin to compare with , a nickel was there.

I just gave it a pressure test with my thumb and forefinger and I swear I could feel it want to give way and bend..i didnt bend it but it felt like it was butter for a minute there...id best put it away til tomorrow.Id fully expect gold to bend...oh dear

Came back on to say...it did bend , I laid it flat and it rocks noticeably , ive inspected it with magnifiers , theres no crack or signs of any damage , I dont think its plated.I think I could just as easily bend it back but I wont tonight..enough excitement for one day , g'nite
Edited by wetglaswegian
12/14/2008 03:14 am
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wetglaswegian's Avatar
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917 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2008  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No update today I'm afraid , Mrs wetglaswegian wanted to go get her Christmas tree.It had to be a real tree and it had to be huge etc etc
Now I get to get covered in scratches and sap putting it up while she unpacks and coos over baubles.

Ill do all this with nary a grimace or moan , tomorrow is mine and I want to get to that coin dealer to buy the Red Book and he can take a peek at this coin.
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