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European ? | Imitation Spanish 2 Escudos

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manila galleon trade's Avatar
Spain
1361 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2008  7:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manila galleon trade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These coins are not suppose to be round they are cobs. Check the obverse on the 6 to 8 oclock part of the coin, in between the letters A R V, can you see some signs of casting? Does the coin have luster or just the flash?


Very nice coin, look at the condition, too good to be true.
Member
wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2008  11:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Heres an excellent photo of the AVR SECTION , I wouldnt know what to look for , looks just like the rest of the coin to me really.

Flash or lustre ? Id reckon its both , depending on which angle a photo is taken the color changes slightly , shadows and so on from points on the coin , it looks like id expect gold to look , when it bent last night I almost had an accident in my levis , no harm done though , I realise it doesn't mean its gold but its soft whatever it is.Ive a pic ill post that shows how it now doesn't sit evenly.



Image: European-?-|-Imitation-Spanish-2-Escudos avr.jpg
59.05 KB

Image: European-?-|-Imitation-Spanish-2-Escudos IMG_2009.jpg
47.24 KB
Edited by wetglaswegian
12/14/2008 11:47 pm
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KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2008  01:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's sure an interesting one...keep it safe until you have someone do some tests (specific gravity would be conclusive enough)
Based on the measurements you've provided sofar, the SG of your coin is notably higher than lead (or silver)--very good sign.
I hope Swamperbob drops by too and offers his insight--he has a lot of experience with colonials.
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wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2008  01:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Its kept me up late the past few nights KurtS , I dont have a balance scale to do the test , just some digital ones I had for scrap silver and so on , its fairly accurate I think.

In a way I was hoping it was a case of "look at this here and thats why its a fake" but that hasnt happened , I hear about the casting and so on but I await results in that area , the photos are stunning and I doubt if ill get better from my camera,i can certainly take more from other angles but clarity wise I think the results look great...looks like gold too if I was just an observer.
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manila galleon trade's Avatar
Spain
1361 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2008  11:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manila galleon trade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
swamperbob could definetly help as he is an expert on fake coinage.
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wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2008  12:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Theres a better than good chance we'll have an opinion today from a dealer.Its just went noon and I'm hoping to visit the coin store today.

Not quite what I expected at the main coin dealer in town.I purchased a Red Book and asked his opinion after a little chit chat.
He picked it up and took a look with just the eye and said he could not and would not offer me an opinion.
He said 40 years of being a coin dealer and he knows his area , this coin is outwith his area.
He suggested I send it off to be graded and would not give me a hint to if he reckoned it real.
I extended that chat to say I would not be comfortable sending it away just yet and wondered to myself if he would have recommended getting it graded if he suspected it fake.

Im no further ahead but on the other hand I wasnt shot down either.Im going back out to try again where I bought my last gold maple a week ago , he'll maybe give an opinion , id have went there first but its further away and I dont entirely trust this guy.
His price on a maple was fair but he has a look about him..we'll see
Edited by wetglaswegian
12/15/2008 3:14 pm
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KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2008  3:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sigh. I guess a lot of dealers cannot perform a simple SG test?
Others, might try to test the coin like it was melt jewelry with some destructive method--don't let them.
Maybe another collector in your area has a scale that will work for a SG test?
I only mention this again because the test is so easy, and using accurate methods, rather conclusive.

After I run a few errands, I'm going to post a few pics on my setup, which even works for larger gemstones--a fraction of a coin's weight.
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wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2008  3:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Gent I spoke with today , it was the first time id ever been in.I assured him I wasnt trying to sell or making a subtle move indicating I wanted a value , I just needed to know in an experts opinion was it genuine.
Ive no desire to sell if its real.If its fake its worthless and id have a hard time selling it without being labelled a con man.
So selling it was never in the picture.

Ill go see this other guy in the next county over , he is smart and stays open in the early part of the evenings , gives people a chance to get there after work etc.
I wont let any tests of any kind be done on it there , in fact with this particular guy I dont even want him leaving the room with it.

Ive a feeling its coming down to constructing this test myself with your help KurtS , ill check back to see what ill need.
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manila galleon trade's Avatar
Spain
1361 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2008  7:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manila galleon trade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hey, if the dealer didn't say anything about the coin maybe that's a good sign. If a coin is fake it is so easy to say FAKE. So you're still in 50-50. Go to a pawnshop maybe they can help without doing a damage test.
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KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2008  7:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm going to post my method for measuring SG using a simple electronic jeweler's scale.
I'll do that later this evening.
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wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2008  02:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You know ...somebody told me some time ago to buy a Red Book before I do any coin purchases.
A Red Book would not have prevented my purchase but page 22 seems to have answered the question on this coins authenticity.
I cant be 100% certain but it talks about a replica having a seam around the edge , this one doesn't but if you look closely all the way around there does seem to be a hairline in some places , not in all.
Its far from the seam described on page 22 but its still a sign towards it being a replica.It doesn't explain the weight or softness of the metal , if it is 2 pieces bonded together why didnt it split when I bent it..still a few questions over it and the intermittant hairline appearing isn't as cut and dry as it sounds I dont think..but its there all the same.
The coin is so thin I doubt if ill capture it on film but ill try tomorrow.
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KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2008  02:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It could be a seam--or it could be some other cause, such as being shaved and bumped along the edge to hide the fact. The cause is a secondary issue if the coin proves to be gold. When I have more time, I'll post a thread on how to do a specific gravity (SG) test using basic equipment. In the meantime, I would just bring it to a reputable jeweler or gemologist. Either worthy of their profession can tell by feel if it's gold, or do a SG test themselves. Good luck!
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wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2008  02:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks KurtS , I havnt entirely given up but it was a blow.Its not a seam but its something and the fact I can see it was a downer.
Ill do my best to get a picture in the morning , I'm with you on the idea that it still warrents testing on the metal itself , I cant think of many metals that look and act like this.
Im tempted to scratch its edge to see whats beneath but ill hold out on that for now.
It was suggested to me that could it be possible a replica was made from perhaps scrap gold in a bid to make the gold scrap both more desirable and maybe even decieve a buyer into thinking its genuine?
Few would question it if it proved to actually be gold , what purity is another question.
If its not gold what else could it be ? If its plated a scratch will show me its true color but its not like the edges dont have marks and scrapes and it shows gold color underneath , uniform color.
What other metal can be smaller and thinner than a nickel but equal weight?
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manila galleon trade's Avatar
Spain
1361 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2008  08:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manila galleon trade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
this is getting to be my everyday favorite series.

Go to a pawnshop and they will know if its gold. If it is a replica made of gold then you still hit gold. Ask the pawnshop how much is it to pawn it. They will not accept it if its not gold.


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wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2008  2:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ahhhh thats not a bad idea Manilagalleontrade , theres bound to be a pawn shop somewhere.If its gold ill get an offer but if its not ill get chased out of the shop..not bad.
Its snowing heavily today but its early yet.



Its a fake guys , I dont know what its made of but I do know its a fake.i contacted the guy and put my thoughts forward on the matter and he gave me my money back and didnt ask for the coin back..what does that tell us?
Edited by wetglaswegian
12/16/2008 6:59 pm
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