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Unknown Polish Medallion/Polish King Talar 1567

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Poland
3 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2006  08:24 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add fanatyk6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi,
I've found this disc in = western Poland. It's probably made of aluminum. One side has a coat of arms of Gdańsk (German Danzig; Gdańsk - polish city near the Baltic Sea). The words, _oneta nova civitatis dan____ (originally MONETA NOVA CIVITAS DANTISCI - Coin New City Gdańsk) are also on this side. But the coat of arms is incorrect - the crown should be inside the shelter not above it. Below the coat of arms is date 1567. On the other side are only little dots. Diameter - 29 mm. Weight around 1-1,5 g. As you can see someone used it as a medallion. In literature on this topic I've found that this coat of arms was used only on the polish king Zygmunt August Talar from 1567. Only 3 coins remains (in Petersburg, Gdańsk and ? (England). Unfortunately my disc is smaller than those talar. The talar has 41 mm diameter and weight 27,68 g.
Woud appreciate any help that is given.
Regards
Fanatyk6
fanatyk66@o2.pl



http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/...f44881zh.jpg
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/...f44876wl.jpg
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/...f44840iq.jpg

edited to remove multiple same posts...


Edited by lim118
02/26/2006 10:39 am
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lim118's Avatar
Australia
1529 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2006  08:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lim118 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to the Forum fanatyk6....as far as I am aware of, you are the first poster from Poland.....I know absolutely ziltch about Polish coinage but some other member may come along and supply you with the answers you are looking for....
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16816 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2006  10:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure the purported date is 1567 - those marks below the shield are just decorative swirly bits, not numbers. Nevertheless, the style fits the period. The date on coins of this period is often either where the hole is or on the other side of the coin.

You're right about the coat of arms being "wrong" for Danzig - it may be one of the other city-states in the area. Elbing, for example, had a similar coat of arms, without the crown. (but I can't make the legend say "ELBINGENSIS").

Unfortunately, this falls right in the gap between when my Grierson book ends (1450) and the Krause catalogues begin (1601). Coins of this period were frequently made of billon, a low-grade silver alloy of varying density - if it's thin, it can feel light and aluminium-like. However, I doubt that a genuine coin would only have a field of dots - coin art at the time was more advanced than that. There should be a king's head, or monogram, or something. I suspect this is a recently-made souvenir, perhaps made with an original coin die someone found. It may even have been sold as a keyring. Unfortunately, without complete coverage in my catalogues, I can't be absolutely certain.

If it actually is made of aluminium, then it can't be "old" - alumimium wasn't used for coins, medals etc until the late 1800's.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
New Member
Poland
3 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2006  10:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fanatyk6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
hi lim 118. I was just looking for a forum where someone would give me an anwser about this disc. I see that I've clicked too many times ...
New Member
Poland
3 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2006  10:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fanatyk6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SAP this is a coat of arms of Danzig. But there is a mistake about which I 've alredy wrote. Personally I think it's some kind of medallion. Maybe it's made in XIX-XX century but I don't know why someone used this pattern on the medallion. It's really mystery to me. take a look on the fotos, I've made a close-up shoot on the date and add a fotos of original Zygmunt's August talar form 1567.


http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/...f44984lk.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/...f44904vd.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/...f44916ix.jpg

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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16816 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2006  03:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd say you're right, Fanatyk, that does indeed look like a copy of that thaler, date and all.

Why would someone use that design? If the coin is as scarce as that, it may well be famous among numimsmatists in the area (like the 1930 penny here in Australia). Perhaps a coin club, historical society or local museum chose to reproduce it as a symbol on their member's badge or keytag, or simply sold it as a souvenir.

If there's a specimen of the "real thing" held in a museum in Gdansk somewhere, you could go there and ask if they've ever made anything like this.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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