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Questions About Doubled Dies.

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 5 / Views: 872Next Topic  
Valued Member

United States
55 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2021  11:49 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Eagle_Eye to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi there.
I can't seem to find via search the answer to my question about doubled dies.
Specifically the older multiple squeeze Dies.
As I understand it, doubling can be on any device.
My question is, how is that possible ?
If the hubs were reinstalled misaligned and another impression made, shouldn't that vertical, horizontal or rotated impression be visible on all of the devices ?
I know how the dies are produced from photos/videos of such.
Please help me understand why the doubling is only on some devices sometimes.

EE
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Tanman2001's Avatar
United States
4404 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2021  1:48 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Please help me understand why the doubling is only on some devices sometimes.


There are multiple reasons why this is the case, just like there are multiple classes and causes for doubled dies.

Die blanks are not flat, they are conical. So in some cases, if the first hubbing was not complete, only the devices at the center of the coin are doubled.

In other cases the dies may be tilted, rather than misaligned, so the doubling would only show on one side.

An in another case, for Class II and VI doubled dies, there is no misalignment or tilt. Rather improper annealing made the dies too soft and/or the dies expand from heat so the design closer to the edge becomes distorted during the hubbing process.
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coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2021  4:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This link might help you get started:
http://goccf.com/t/405425#3470718
There are 9 classes of doubled dies, with sometimes two different classes are found on the same listing. Depending on the issue of the hub/die creations.
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SamCoin's Avatar
United States
3237 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2021  9:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SamCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Read the description of the various classes of doubled dies on error-ref. The phenomenon you're describing typically occurs on Class VIII and IX doubled dies.
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United States
2869 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2021  9:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Oldfordman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Try to look at dds at vv.
Valued Member
United States
55 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2021  07:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Eagle_Eye to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Tanman2001
Thank you.
Until I read your reply, the only way I had thought about misaligned or tilted dies was in the context of the working dies stamping the coins.
That never occurred to me that the hubs that made the working dies may have been misaligned or tilted etc
Distorted hub doubling didn't make sense to me before I read that the dies can be soft on the edge for various reasons.

For personal clarification, were the dies conical when the Mint was using multiple squeeze or did conical shaped dies come about with the single squeeze method ?
I honestly thought the old style dies were flat.

@Samcoin, @OldFordMan I do read those sites, getting it all make sense is the hardest part.
Understanding what you are looking at is a close second.

@coop
I wouldn't really know the things that I have learned without your visual guidance.
I study every coin I touch.
Thank you for your years of sharing your knowledge with others.
You're a great teacher!

EE

Edit. Spelling typo.
Edited by Eagle_Eye
08/25/2021 07:05 am
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