ID - 2 Worn Copper Coins (1700-S /Spain?)

Hello all,

This is my first post.
I have two pretty worn copper coins, and have always wondered what they are.
Started looking things up, with the little things I could read on them, but not much luck.

I know nothing about this first one, sorry.
...Just that it is 30mm in diameter and 2mm in thickness
On the back I think the date looks like 17--


Now here,the face reads"Ferdinand IV ET REX", while the date of 1792 is on the back.
On the back a wreath surrounds what looks like to be 4 lines of letters, but one can only read
VN
GR
C
A

this one is 25mm in diameter, and 1mm thick


Any thoughts ?
Thanks in advance