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Mint State Trade Dollars With Chopmark(S)?

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Tenring's Avatar
United States
82 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2021  4:35 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Tenring to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
How is it physically possible for a coin - in this case Trade dollars - to be shipped to China, handled enough to get chopmarked, return to the U.S., and still be graded MS-62, even MS-64?

I don't even know if there's a definitive answer.

I never knew they existed until recently, when I went looking at PCGS TD registry sets. I was surprised to learn that a coin could be handled that much yet still stay in MS condition.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2021  5:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fair question. The innuendo of the question is quite apparent.

If the Chinese are capable of fabricating very deceptive fake silver proof coins of all sorts,
I see that they would have no problem with very deceptive fake Trade dollars with chop marks, even if they were made from .900 sliver.

If I were to buy an MS Trade dollar I would prefer to see it in a slab from a leading TPGrader, just to prove authenticity.
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Adam_E's Avatar
United States
4846 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2021  5:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam_E to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sel, I believe the OP is referring to Trade dollars in UNC TPG holders that are chopmarked.

It's important to keep in mind that grading between UNC and AU is an evaluation of the level of wear a coin has, not what actually happens to the coin during it's life. So if I were to break a roll of fresh coins from the mint and handle them, they are technically circulated, but if sent in to get graded they would almost certainly attain an MS grade because they lack wear.

You can apply this same logic to Trade dollars of the 1800's. These dollars were shipped, weighed, and counterstamped in bulk. If there is only one counterstamp, there isn't a whole lot of direct handling beyond the actual application of the counterstamp. One can surmise that the coins that were shipped overseas, counterstamped, then stored for 100 years or so can still be "uncirculated".

Now whether or not chopmarks are considered "damage" is another debate. Personally I wouldn't want to consider it the same as an unstamped specimen, but I also wouldn't consider it the same as a deeply gouged or graffitied specemin. I like the way PCGS does it by denoting it as details but also assigning it a full numeric grade.
Edited by Adam_E
11/08/2021 7:44 pm
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2021  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That states the case very well.
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oih82w8's Avatar
United States
7840 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2021  8:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oih82w8 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
UNC coinage shows no sign of discernible wear, so, theoretically it could have fallen under the punch of a merchant and still not show any noticeable wear. Although, I don't subscribe to this notion.
Edited by oih82w8
11/08/2021 8:15 pm
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Ty2020b's Avatar
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4680 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2021  8:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nothing more to add other than well stated by AdamE
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Tenring's Avatar
United States
82 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2021  9:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tenring to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all the replies.

I hadn't considered the possibility of the coins staying bagged except for a quick chopmark or two, then being rebagged for the future. Makes sense though.
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jacrispies's Avatar
United States
3848 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2021  10:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jacrispies to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Maybe the Chinese knew how to handle valuable coins by only touching the rim...
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