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Replies: 16 / Views: 1,990 |
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Valued Member
149 Posts |
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Moderator
 United States
34397 Posts |
Yikes, I could do a lot with $27K if I wasn't going to blow it all on this single coin. For me and my personal collection, it would not be worth it. With that said, you need to decide if/how this coin potentially fits into *your* collection. Maybe you have a specific, personal attachment to Amsterdam?
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push." -----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed." -----King Adz
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Valued Member
 149 Posts |
you can find a cheaper one of equal quality of that year?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
Not to me. One dukaat satisfied my need for Dutch history. It does look like a rarity, for condition anyway. CNG sold this one for $7000 in 2015. $27,000 seems a little rich, but maybe this is a hot market for rare dukaats. https://goldducats.com/dr-lawrence-...dfort-ducat/I'd demand provenance and authentication. It's your money.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq 11/17/2021 07:12 am
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Valued Member
 149 Posts |
That particular event in 1672 and broad implications on World History, including in the New World. Additionally, sieze coins tend to bring a premium. This was a cruicible moment in European History, a true inflection point.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5177 Posts |
Seems like a lot of money. Quote: That particular event in 1672 had broad implications on World History, including in the New World. Additionally, this size coins tend to bring a premium. This was a crucial moment in European History, a true inflection point. It was an momentous year and I expect many museums have this coin in their collection for that same reason. But that does not mean you should pay $27k for it. Also, I think that there will be less demand for these type of coins in the future as the demographics of Europe and of The Netherlands in particular will probably create less of an interest in pre 20th Century history.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7936 Posts |
I have thumbed through parts of Henzen's listings on MA-SHops several times (for southern Low Countries medievals), and always passed, feeling I would have better luck getting the coins at a more reasonable price at auction. I think for more "common" coins, there is quite a markup above auction results on comparable coins.
But this is a different kettle of fish, because the coin comes up for sale so infrequently.
You've probably done your research. If it fills a special spot in your collection, you've got the cash, and aren't worried about any downside if we're in a bubble, (I don;t because I'm not planning on re-selling what I buy), sure, why not? You may not see another come along for 5 years.
At this level, I'm sure you could always try to negotiate, too.
Edited by tdziemia 11/20/2021 4:26 pm
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Valued Member
 149 Posts |
you've got the cash, and aren't worried about any downside if we're in a bubble
I would need to get a loan to do this, but I don't worry about a bubble. I worry about coin theft.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7936 Posts |
Quote: I would need to get a loan to do this In this case, my response changes to don't. Going into debt for a hobby by anything more than 30 days is a huge no-no in my book. Reflecting back on this point by @NumisEd: Quote: Also, I think that there will be less demand for these type of coins in the future as the demographics of Europe and of The Netherlands in particular will probably create less of an interest in pre 20th Century history. It may already be the case. I recently ran across the sale of a unique 14th c. coin from this part of the world. The selling price? A mere $16,000.
Edited by tdziemia 11/21/2021 10:54 am
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Valued Member
 149 Posts |
Quote: It may already be the case. I recently ran across the sale of a unique 14th c. coin from this part of the world. The selling price? A mere $16,000. I just want to avoid any comment on this matter as it is a for sure path into an intense political discussion. I find it hard to believe though, in the end, that the Dutch republics revolutionary societal changes and political history, with its broad affect on world history, will ever be forgotten. And 1672 was the lynchpin moment.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7936 Posts |
I am not a student of Dutch history, so I don't know about 1672. It certainly isn't a year that comes up in history classes taught in the U.S. And that comment I made had more to do with my surprise that a unique coin from anywhere in the industrialized world could sell for so little, which was probably more a statement on the weak demand for medievals.
From the little I do know of Dutch history, I am a bit surprised that the earlier Dutch struggle for independence is never mentioned in discussions of the American one that came 2 centuries later. Or at least not that I can remember from my last American history course, but that was nearly 50 years ago.
Edited by tdziemia 11/22/2021 2:20 pm
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Valued Member
 149 Posts |
Quote: It certainly isn't a year that comes up in history classes taught in the U.S That doesn't say much for the US education system. They forget to mention the Mayflower came from the Netherlands as well. Without the Dutch struggles for secular and tolerant republican government, the later Democracizations in the UK, the US and France would likely not had emerged as it did.
Edited by radars_teddy 11/22/2021 2:59 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
For Americans - and the Dutch - the English Civil War and the establishment of the English Commonwealth 20-30 years earlier are far more important for democratic Parliamentary government. It didn't cost $27,000 to put this coin in my wallet. I've carried it for the last 20 years.  I didn't learn this in American schools. I'm sure it's taught at university level to a few World History students, but not to me. I learned it because I read and the subject interests me.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq 11/22/2021 3:29 pm
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Valued Member
 149 Posts |
Quote: For Americans - and the Dutch - the English Civil War and the establishment of the English Commonwealth 20-30 years earlier are far more important for democratic Parliamentary government. That is not historically accurate. If the Dutch had succumbed to the Spanish and then the French, Europe would have remained a continent of of tyrantanical despots and violent counter revolution, like the French revoluton, and the America's would never had reached independence. The Dutch ideals spread accross the West, helped as much by their arts, commerce, coinage and literature more so than even their armies and navy. Had it succumbed in 1672, it would have been all but the end of the free west. After 1453, 1672 was the most important year in European history.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
History debate!
The importance of Cromwell and the ascendency of Parliamentary government in England cannot be understated, especially for American history. The English Civil War is a prototype of the American Revolution. Given that America was an isolated English colony, the importance of the Dutch is limited to peculiar names of towns along the Hudson River and the story of Rip Van Winkle....and of course the daalder.... America's government is grounded in English civil law, and shaped by Enlightenment thinking, which was not particularly Dutch.
The Dutch contributed immensely to England later, with the Glorious Revolution of 1688 and the seating of William of Orange as king (by invitation). England after Cromwell devolved towards absolute monarchy again, and it took a Dutchman to right them on their path.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq 11/22/2021 8:05 pm
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Valued Member
 149 Posts |
Quote: History debate! Not with me. I already wrote all I care to on the topic.
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Replies: 16 / Views: 1,990 |