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1617 Coin - Potosi | Reproduction

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New Member

Switzerland
2 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2009  4:04 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add moralesa to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello everyone,

Last week I was traveling in Bolivia and I found this coin (see photo attached).

Looks like is a 1617 coin made in Potosi: PHILIPPVS III .DG. HISPANIARUM ET INDIARUM .REX. ANO 1617. Weight: 27 grams

I'm new on this, but for what I read about it, is very rare to find a coin like this, it is real?

any comment more than welcome. Thanks!

Image: 1617-Coin---Potosi-|-Reproduction POTOSIcoin.jpg
72.08 KB
Edited by Sap
02/12/2009 03:44 am
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KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2009  4:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll comment just for fun, and note how many of the straight lines on this coin have a precision I wouldn't associate with 17th century dies. There is also the 8, which is a number style foreign to that period anywhere. But I'm hardly an expert on these coins, so I think you'll get much better comments soon.

Welcome here!
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wetglaswegian's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2009  4:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wetglaswegian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Im just here for the popcorn itll be interesting to see what others think.Quite a few of these type coins popping up.
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manila galleon trade's Avatar
Spain
1361 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2009  7:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manila galleon trade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The real Potosi of this dates are crude coins.
Fake but nice to have coin with the toning.
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2009  8:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to the Forum,

Interesting reproduction piece, has some small value as a fake. One of our members Swamperbob is the expert on these type of coins. I'm sure he will be along and have more info for you.
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gadg's Avatar
Israel
6 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2009  12:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gadg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A very nice Chinese work.
8 Reals & Thalers are the favorites in China.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16808 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2009  02:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep, sorry, it's fake. This is what a Potosi 8 reales of 1617 normally look like; much cruder affairs.

There were a few very carefully made specimen coins which look as nice and round as yours, but these were made as presentation pieces for the king, and sent back to Europe - so you wouldn't find them in Bolivia today.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
New Member
Switzerland
2 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2009  02:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moralesa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yes, is what I thought, was so nice to be real ;) but is a nice piece as a fake one :) thanks to everyone, hope more people have more comments, it is something very interesting!

I have two more coins: macuquinas, I suppose :=) any comments? (see photos attached)

Thanks again!

Image: 1617-Coin---Potosi-|-Reproduction MACUQUINA1.jpg
36.71 KB

Image: 1617-Coin---Potosi-|-Reproduction MACUQUINA2.jpg
52.57 KB
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livingdinasaur's Avatar
United States
1571 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2009  01:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingdinasaur to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SAP, after viewing several of these posts, I dug out a "COB" I have had for at least 50 years. it is from Potosi, 8 Reales, and dated 1632, I don't think it is genuine. I was going to post a p[icture of it, but it is much to big an image, (thru the scope to give a full face view.. I checked the link you provided, and only find the 8, and 4 Reales, all about 1617 vintage. Is there a 1632 to your knowledge? I will try to get a shot of this one, tomorrow, and edit this post. thank you for any info,
Here are the pictures:
1617-Coin---Potosi-|-Reproduction
1617-Coin---Potosi-|-Reproduction
Dick

















Edited by livingdinasaur
02/08/2009 02:17 am
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16808 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2009  04:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No, the Krause catalogue doesn't list any 8 reales dated 1632.

However, from the shape of the squiggle before the "3" in the date, I'd say this coin is actually dated 1732.

Unfortunately, this doesn't help you much, because the 1700's Krause doesn't list any 8 reales from 1732, either.

I'm not sure what the absence of the date from the listing means.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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manila galleon trade's Avatar
Spain
1361 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2009  10:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manila galleon trade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In my catalog there is KM# 31a 1732YA
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livingdinasaur's Avatar
United States
1571 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2009  11:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingdinasaur to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you both, for the info, however I am going to post one more photo, of the top picture. There is something there that gives me the idea it is a fake. I'll edit, and post it later, (breakdfast is served)!
Later: Check the lower area of the picture. There appears to be another date there. Is this usual? That is what makes me doubt the authenticity. Thanks for looking.
1617-Coin---Potosi-|-Reproduction
Dick
Edited by livingdinasaur
02/08/2009 12:03 pm
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livingdinasaur's Avatar
United States
1571 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2009  12:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingdinasaur to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Macuquinas? Que son esto? Que no son "cabo de barra?
BTW, what is a "macuquina? I thiught it was "just another odd-shaped cob".
Thanks,
dick
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manila galleon trade's Avatar
Spain
1361 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2009  5:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manila galleon trade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Macuquinas are cob coins in spanish. The real design has a date on the obverse and the reverse, only seldom seen because design is not always complete in most coins.
Regarding authenticy, I'm not an expert especially in Photos. You have to touch it and feel it to more or less know the authenticy. There are experts here in fake coins maybe they can help in that. Normally, a bad copy coin can be spotted but this one I can't tell, but like I always say a nice coin to keep even it is fake.
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DL20K's Avatar
Poland
3201 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2009  5:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DL20K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There was a link in one thread to an article that said that these coins can have 2 or even 3 dates.. the dates should be the same (and they both look like 732)..
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livingdinasaur's Avatar
United States
1571 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2009  7:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingdinasaur to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
manilagalleontrade, I was surprised to hear thea there were dates on OBV, as well as REV. This one has two, for sure, as can be seen from the photos. Can you give me a "ball-park" answer as to how much an 8 Real Cob should weigh? It is , or looks like silver, and weighs about the same as a four-bit piece, (50 cents). It is slightly larger than a quarter, and is possibly about 1/4", maybe 3/116" thick. Llike I said, I have had it for more than 50 years, and have neve tried to find out if it is legit, or how much it might be worth. I have no intention to sell. I have never sold a coin, yet. I have given many, as girts, to help "fill holes". My "Oro de Placer', same thing. It was fun finding, and recovering it, but none has ever been sold. In case one of you decides to try some "dry-washing", just remember this: It is dusty, HOT as hades, and very hard work! One day when I decide to die, I hope my collections will be worth at least a "Buck, three-eighty, and a quarter"! thanks guys for your replies, and help!
Dick
Edited by livingdinasaur
02/08/2009 7:09 pm
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