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Decade Of Confusion: 1990's Reverse Cents.

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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 06/05/2022  12:56 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Decade of Confusion: 1990's reverse cents.
Ever have a nagging question in the back of your mind? Like when the the Multi hub dies and the Single squeeze dies change over? Doing a little research on coppercoins.com/ the 1990's cents have a change over during that decade. (Click on the links to see the discussion showing the needed information. This will show you what I'm taking about on this subject)
Sure you can go to the bottom and find the answer, but following the links will help you understand the answer better and will also train your eye on what to look for.
Even some of their listing are confusing. Some have different number for they doubled die classes. But starting at 1990 we see a different looking DDR appearing. Called a Class 4 Doubled die. What is that?
Decade-Of-Confusion:-1990's-Reverse-Cents.
Note the wording of this class? "Additional Hubbing that is misaligned in an offset direction." So the listing for this year should be same for this years listing on the DDR on the columns.

1990 reverse cents
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
So the lines on the bays are what is the DDR. So these are not the single squeeze dies yet.
On the 1990p1dr003 listing:
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
We see a different area for the DDR on the floor on these building.

1991 reverse cents
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
We still see the DDR on the bays, not on the Class 9 affected on the center of the design yet.
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
The 002 has a different area affected, but still fitting the Class 4 doubled die reverses.

1992 reverse cents
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
Somewhat same thing, but other areas are affected, outside of the area that the single squeeze dies would be affecting. Again, Class 4 DDR's this year as well:
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds

1993 reverse cents
Same thing going on with the DDR's for this year as well:
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=eds
This one was listed as a Class 9, but it should be a class 4
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
(Confusion on the listings at the time because this listing was probably years later, they listed it as a Class 9, but should be a class 4. Why do I say that? The other bay to the right is showing the same off set hub doubling. If this were a Class 9, only the center bay would be affected. This site also at one time listed the Wavy steps as part of their number system. This to was unknown at the time. Later the listing still remain with warning that they are not DDR's
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds

1994 reverse cents
Same Class 4 DDR's, so the single squeeze hasn't happened yet:
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
Shift in a different direction:
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
Other locations of DDR are still seen this year:
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=eds

1995 reverse cents
Looks like the Single squeeze dies may have started this year. Note the location that is affected?
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=eds
While there is only one listed that year, makes me wonder thought?

1996 reverse cents
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=eds
For sure the Single squeeze dies are noticed this year. So we note the DDR on the single squeeze dies are on the center bay with the statue, most of the time.
1997 reverse cents
But they may have had both different designs for some years. So it maybe a case of both used on the 1997 cents:
Class 9:
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds

Class 4:
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
1998 reverse cents
Same thing for the 1998 cents. So they may have changed over slowly, not totally at one time.

Class 9
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=eds
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=eds

Class 4
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds

Class 2
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
Looks like more DDR's from Philly than from Denver.

1999 reverse cents
Decade-Of-Confusion:-1990's-Reverse-Cents.
Looks like all the 1999 cents are the class 9 DDR's. So it was completely changed over in 1999, but some of both types of dies were used on the reverses on the 1997 and 1998 reverses.
Confusing, yes. But now we know when the reverse dies all switched over. Gradually and totally. New question? How about the obverses?

CoopHome: When did the reverse dies change from the multi hub dies to the single squeeze dies?
Edited by coop
06/05/2022 1:10 pm
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Yokozuna's Avatar
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 Posted 06/06/2022  11:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great info! Thanks for all the work you put into your post!
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
Decade-Of-Confusion:-1990's-Reverse-Cents.


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 Posted 06/06/2022  1:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TexasSpud to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great info. Often wondered about what made the different classes. Thanks for your research!
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 06/06/2022  9:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is more information on the different die classes. It's down a few posts on this link:
Doubled die classes on coins.
http://goccf.com/t/363026
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kenwright396's Avatar
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 Posted 06/07/2022  08:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kenwright396 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lots of good information, thanks!
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 Posted 06/07/2022  09:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TexasSpud to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Did your investigation find a reason for the high volume of weak or missing letters at 12 o'clock on reverse of the 1990's? I notice tremendous examples of the S at the end of "states" and o of the word "of" being missing or so light they appear as grease strike. Many in 1993 but similar defect in following years only less frequent.. Maybe this has been discussed in a previous thread?

Thanks to your explanations here, I have been able to really see the more subtle imperfections that had gone unnoticed in my searching!
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 06/07/2022  09:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No I was trying to identify the change over of the two processes. It appears they didn't all happen at the same time. But the issue for the missing letters are mostly from the amount of metal moving on the planchet on the obverse side. If the weight was normal then it would be filled in. But if the weight was slightly less, then it would be weaker. Just like on the Wheat reverses the 'O' on ONE would be weaker. Sometimes there could be an issue with grease on that area, but the strike would look differently on them:
Decade-Of-Confusion:-1990's-Reverse-Cents.
These issues didn't have anything to do with this issue on States. The same issues remain because of the huge area of metal to form the bust single squeeze dies also. Seems like the design of the shield fixed the issue. Less metal required on that area of the design.
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 Posted 06/07/2022  2:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TexasSpud to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Perhaps that was another guiding factor in changing to The Shield. I have used the examples a lot to encourage the grandkids to keep looking because the blemishes are easy to find. Thanks again for your input!
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Yokozuna's Avatar
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 Posted 06/10/2022  10:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with coop.

The deepest design on the obverse die of the Lincoln Memorial cent is the wide shoulder/vest area. When the coins are struck, the metal flow of the planchet into the shoulder is the path of least resistance. The engraving of the letters at 12 o'clock on the reverse, just opposite the shoulder, can strike up weak. As the coins are struck at very high speeds, the dies may become slightly out of adjustment and lend to this weakness.
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
Decade-Of-Confusion:-1990's-Reverse-Cents.


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 Posted 07/17/2022  8:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
CoopHome: Decade of change on reverse DDRs on cents. Single Squeeze process start?
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Dearborn's Avatar
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 07/18/2022  5:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It helped me realize that the not all the processes took place on the same year. Thus why no one could give a year for the first single squeezed dies. That research led to me to the conclusion.
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Kopper Ken's Avatar
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 Posted 07/19/2022  09:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kopper Ken to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very informative...thank you.

KK
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