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Replies: 25 / Views: 1,965 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
@PlumCrazy814: You put a very logic point.
Now: Laminating: metallurgical, and adjacent apply fields of science, has two meanings:
1. union of two materials (in coins as we look every day is clad and plating) other very know materials for example are floor laminated or plywood.
2. laminations strict in metallurgical language mean what we say popular rolling. Why Lamination? because it is the change of the dimensions ex from 1 inch to 1/8 inch thickness of an alloy during the process of applying rolling forces horizontally. Also because the rolling ensemble or machine has the name Laminator.
3. In coins Delamination mean a profound separation of the molecular structure of an alloy. 4. Ex-Foliation mean a molecular separation of the surface of the material in form of very tinny layouts.
The both errors are consequences of a wrong annealing.
Hope is usefully for someone. The other difference for us it is, those errors are different in the time of the production:
1. Ex-foliations occurs during the rolling and more accentuated by the strike and the 2. delamination during the blank cut, milling and strike.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
573 Posts |
I'm a little late to the topic but will put my Two Cents in anyway. I've always understood the reason for calling it a lamination error was because coins weren't supposed to have layers or laminations in the first place, so the error is in the existence or presence of a layer of laminated material. If a the layers of a piece of plywood begin to separate, it is said to be "delaminating", or suffering from a separation of the laminations. However, since a coin isn't supposed to have those layers of material, the error lies primarily (or at least initially) in the fact that they exist, rather than in the fact that they are separating. Much like a "die chip" error identifies not the actual chip on the die, but the excess little blob of metal that the chip on the die caused to be created on the coin, we're naming the error after the thing that is present but isn't supposed to be. For what it's worth.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2376 Posts |
HGK3 That is a interesting comparison and reasoning. Interesting , because when the layers separate on the only truly laminated coins that the US has ( those that we call clad) the terminology dictates that we call it a missing clad layer (or partially missing) and not Lam or De-laminated.
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Valued Member
United States
155 Posts |
Potato Patoto Tomato tamato The only dumb question is one not asked!!!
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
@HGK3 and @stoneman227 very logics point of view. What it is a little bit confusing it is that clad in the coins is other metal by rapport of the core. It is apply by rolling in general cold rolling. Very few places in US use warm rolling (best method but very expensive also). The Nickel himself will never union with the cooper by laminating process if do not has Cu in his own alloy.. The Ni and Cu molecular structure are different and can not union the ions by this method. Detach clad is Delaminated Clad. Now the Cooper alloys (is no use pure un-oxygenated Cu which will cost even more then the gold). The alloy molecular form has more and less cubic form. So rolling we apply vertical and horizontal forces to change the dimensions of the initial alloy. Due to those forces, if the alloy was not proper anneal, the molecules separate starting from the middle of the material (alloy) and this it is delaminate, will have a form of a layout. The ex-foliation has the same molecular separation, but at the surface of the material, is tinny and in general follow the surface of the molecular structure but not deeper. The Crack of the material occur only in three cases: 1. end of the rolling material, which in general is eliminated or 2. when the vertical forces of the strike are applied. This is call also structural failure. 3. It is the metal of the coin aging. 4.? Not yet proved the cracking is suppose to happened also in the process of milling, but due to change in the coins alloys material (no more bronze) probably we will never know. In any case all those are Mint Errors never catalog by theirs error. PS @ IzzylizzyQuote: Potato Patoto Tomato tamato As Mike say: grammars atrocity.
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Valued Member
United States
155 Posts |
@silviosi what....? That's what I said I even spelled it right...  only thing I didn't capitalize the T on Tamato...? I may not know coins... but words I'm usually good with lol now show me what I messed up n make me look stupid bahaha
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
"Tamato" it is not an word in any language. What slang it is curious to know)?
"The only dumb question is one not asked!!!" This expression has the origins on antic Persians or Assyrians culture, this it is not clear and original was: "Silence you keep, intelligent you are!"
"stupid bahaha" This mean "stupid banana?"
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Pillar of the Community
United States
883 Posts |
So Silviosi, would you say that annealing of the material post rolling, if done properly, re-aligns the cell structure, reduces grain size, and thereby eliminates the laminate effect?
Edited by PlumCrazy814 01/07/2023 09:38 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
Eliminate future separations. If already those separations occur, only melting point will be able to repair the separation which it is not the case on processes of coins fabrication.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
883 Posts |
Thanks for the clarification
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Replies: 25 / Views: 1,965 |