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Years 2005 - Now , Jefferson Nickel - Liberty Study

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Valued Member
Canada
219 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2023  9:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Coop for your pictures.

Doubled die on Reverse

Here is what I have found for the reverse side.

2013-P DDR-003
reference: http://www.varietyvista.com/04d%20J...3PDDR003.htm

Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study


I do not know what happened for this one!

Maybe one of you have seen this kind of doubling.

The whole right side of the building seems doubled (red arrow shows the doubling of door and small window under door) and the details are not sharp.
There are metal ripples on the wall of the building.

Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study

Reference coin vs coin in question

Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study

This is the window to the right. Notice the concave depression after the edges of the walls.

Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study
Edited by numidan
04/26/2023 07:45 am
Valued Member
Canada
219 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2023  07:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 2007 P in previous reply is still a mystery

Doubled die on Obverse

This is what I found in lot.

2005 D WDDO-001
reference: https://www2.briansvarietycoins.com...gs/view/1697
Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study

2008 P
Doubling on left side of legend mostly visible on word "TRUST"

Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study


The rest is doubling on the word Liberty sometimes affecting digits in year.

2011 D
Strong doubling on letters "ber"
Die state = Silvio's catergory 1b+
Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study

2007 D
Small doubling on letters "ber" and digits "200"
Die state = Silvio's catergory 1b
Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study

2012 D
Small doubling on letters "ber" and digits "201"
Die state = Silvio's catergory 1b+
Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study
Edited by numidan
04/26/2023 08:00 am
Valued Member
Canada
219 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2023  8:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Die Clash on Reverse

Here is what I have found. The most common die clash is the one on the side of building as shown in image below (Two areas I found highlighted in red).

I have 11 coins with DC all having slightly different clash position. I only provided one picture of each DC type found.

Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study
Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study

Note: Obverse picture was flipped for this montage.
Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study
Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study
Edited by numidan
04/26/2023 8:27 pm
Valued Member
Canada
219 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2023  09:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Incuse Doubling

I never understood this type of deterioration but very easy to recognize. There is a concave depression outside the edges of the device. This type of error mostly seen on pennies, seldom seen on nickels.

Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study
Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study
Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study


Trails

Very noticeable lines extending from the corners of the letters "PLUR"

Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study


There are other observations I have made but the few nickels I have, prevents me to reach an acceptable conclusion (ie. lack of steps on building, is it a one year problem or can be observed on other years).

Hope this was as informative as it has been for me. There are noticeable differences between errors found on Canadian nickels and those found on American nickels within this time frame. I have enjoyed this exercise.

Until I get more US nickels (between 2005-now) to search through, I will try to perform the finite element analysis (this is new to me!) to get a better understanding of stresses on the working die. Here is a preview of the 3D modelling phase.

Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study
Edited by numidan
04/27/2023 09:17 am
Valued Member
Canada
219 Posts
 Posted 05/10/2023  3:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Update

After 2 weeks into online course, the simulation process is harder than I thought!

The student version of software is limited so I will not be able to simulate previous reply's 3D model :(

In the course, it is mentioned that we can simplify a model to obtain meaningful results that can be extrapolated.

So here is reduced version of Hub and Die colliding. You will notice the outer surface of die rod blank expanding during the hubbing process confirming what is seen in picture below. The simulation reports up to approximately 1.5mm diameter expansion. This might be the reason for some "play" between collar and Hub/Die.

Sorry for small animation, CC will only allow 300k file size.
Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study

Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study
source:https://www.coinnews.net/2013/09/13...oduce-coins/

Depending on the material used for the die rod blank, there could be some contraction as the piston is lifted. This depends on the elastic portion of stress-strain curve.


Edited by numidan
05/10/2023 3:15 pm
Pillar of the Community
silviosi's Avatar
Canada
6244 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2023  12:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ numidan

I think your photo must be the working hub or perhaps the master Die.

In my office I show you the really working Die how it is and the points.

I just ask for my own clarification because produce Dies is Vertical squeeze and the coins struck is Horizontal. IMHO by the markers must be an Working Hub. Thanks.
Valued Member
Canada
219 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2023  09:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I just ask for my own clarification


No problem Silvio, always glad to clarify.


Quote:
In my office I show you the really working Die how it is and the points.


Thank you for showing me the working die as it was the first time I could see one in person!

Below is a picture showing the different stages of producing a working die.
What you showed me was the hardened ("working") die ground as indicated by the blue arrow.

I was working on the struck ("working") die as indicated by the red arrow. What could have been confusing is that I have not included the shoulder on the working die blank in this simulation but in the new simulation I am attempting, it is there as shown in image below.

Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study
source:https://www.coinnews.net/2013/09/13...oduce-coins/
Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study
Valued Member
Canada
219 Posts
 Posted 05/16/2023  2:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is an interesting find for 2005 D Ocean.

I think that a piece of metal was stuck between the letters E and R on the hub producing the die as shown in the top picture.

The force during the hubbing process made a mark of the outline of the piece of metal on the hub.

When the piece of metal fell out, the following die(s) produced shows the mark where the piece of metal was as shown in the bottom picture.

Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study
Valued Member
Canada
219 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2023  09:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At first I thought it was a new DDR but closer inspection it is a die clash.

I am surprised at the amount of die clashes I find in the new rolls I purchased recently for the study!

In the montage below, I have indicated with red arrows and numbers the marks left by Jefferson's nose as it is hard to get a good picture.

Years-2005---Now-,-Jefferson-Nickel---Liberty-Study
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