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Iturbide 8 Reales Silver Coin, How Much May It Be Worth?

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Valued Member

Romania
130 Posts
 Posted 04/15/2023  3:45 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Andi10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello,colleagues!
I struggled quite a time to add to my collection a 8 Reales coin of emperor Augustin I. Finally I got one that I don't see to be in great condition, rather poor one I may say, but due to the scarcity on the market, I 'll like to know how much would it be correctly worth & what grade would you put on it?
Thank you very much!
Andi

Iturbide-8-Reales-Silver-Coin,-How-Much-May-It-Be-Worth?
Iturbide-8-Reales-Silver-Coin,-How-Much-May-It-Be-Worth?
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2023  01:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Andi10

Before an estimate of value can be made, the first thing to do is to determine if the coin itself is (1) genuine, (2) a numismatic forgery (NF) or (3) a contemporary circulating counterfeit (CCC).

I would guess that at least of half of the examples being sold on ebay are NOT genuine. Very recently an example of CCC variety sold on ebay for $1,625. CCC's of this variety are RARE. I have only seen a handful of CCCs.

The most common type are the NFs which are made to fool coin collectors. They are generally worthless unless they are silver. An NF silver coin is worth melt plus a few dollars.

Genuine coins have an accepted value based on condition.

To determine what kind of coin you have you need to weight the coin very accurately to a 1/100th of a gram.

Next you will need to determine the specific gravity of the coin.

Third you need to post a clear picture of the edge of the coin. This is critical since most forgers get the edge wrong.


Valued Member
Romania
130 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2023  02:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Andi10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dear colleague, thanks for your kind response but the forgery or even copy are out of discussion: the coin is 100% genuine and made of good silver...it was verified also by a jeweler. The weight matches also the real & correct one.
So,please REconsider your answer starting with these sure data! So:
1) What grade might it get?
2) How much would it (realy) be worth?

Thanks again!
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2023  11:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Simply because the coin is made of "good silver" is no guarantee whatsoever that it is genuine and made during the year shown on the coin. I have seen hundreds of coins made of good silver (90%) that were Numismatic Forgeries.

What specific test was performed by the jeweler to get the result of "good silver"? The term is absolutely meaningless without knowing the specific test used.

Did the jeweler test for the presence of gold in the alloy? Without that test done with XRF, I would never consider buying an Iturbide coin or any other Mexican coin struck in Mexico City before the Second Republic.

Finally, based on the pictures alone, the general lack of fine detail, the irregularly spaced dentils and my years of experience authenticating such coins - it looks like a Numismatic Forgery.

Why are you reluctant to provide the edge pictures and the basic physical parameters needed to assess the coin?
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 04/17/2023  02:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
swamperbobs's opinion is always my 'go to' opinion with this series of coins.
Valued Member
Romania
130 Posts
 Posted 04/17/2023  06:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Andi10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi again! Dear friends, thanks for your interest on my coin & your kind responses of help! I am not reluctant, I just had not under hands the coin at that precise moment.
Problem solved. Here are the requested info.:
Iturbide-8-Reales-Silver-Coin,-How-Much-May-It-Be-Worth?
Iturbide-8-Reales-Silver-Coin,-How-Much-May-It-Be-Worth?
Iturbide-8-Reales-Silver-Coin,-How-Much-May-It-Be-Worth?
Iturbide-8-Reales-Silver-Coin,-How-Much-May-It-Be-Worth?
Iturbide-8-Reales-Silver-Coin,-How-Much-May-It-Be-Worth?
Edited by Andi10
04/17/2023 07:24 am
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 04/18/2023  01:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Andi10 The edge pictures demonstrate rather clearly that the coin is not genuine.

The Mexico City edge apparatus used two flat bar dies that were punched using a three-element punch created from the matrix block that originally came from Spain. This matrix block still exists and would have been used for the Iturbide coins. The punch design consisted of two rectangles and a circle between the rectangles. Each time the punch was set into the edge die a circle and one rectangle was added. The last rectangle was overlaped to maintain correct spacing and alignment. The punch was applied to the base of a groove cut into the edger bar die. The rectangle was overlapped with each successive application of the three-element punch so that all rectangles are double punched features, and all of the circles are a single strike impression. This means that no variation in the circles should be visible. None. The rectangles can vary slightly in length but not the circles - yet on your coin the circles are the most variable of the features at times being elongated ovals. The edge simply lacks correct circles.

I would agree that the weight of the coin appears to be correct. However, without knowing the volume of the coin no estimate of density can be made. When counterfeiters made coins for circulation, they normally made low assay coins by adding copper to the metal. The weight was easily corrected by rolling the planchet slightly thicker than normal.

The reflectivity of the Reverse (eagle side) of the coin indicates it was likely chemically cleaned recently. One trick used by counterfeiters and forgers both is to pickle the coin in a heated acid bath to leach some of the surface copper away and leave a very silvery looking surface on the coin.

Before I can comment on the die impression it is really critical that CLEAR pictures be provided. The most difficult part of a die to copy correctly are the numbers and letters. I cannot see that detail clearly enough to comment on the font used or the finishing of the die which is visible between the letters and numbers where the original dies surfaces can usually be seen even on a well-worn coin.
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