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About Square Tealby Pennies

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Italy
8 Posts
 Posted 11/04/2023  5:07 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Ulpianensis to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers

About-Square-Tealby-Pennies

Good night everybody! I would share with you all a doubt...
I saw a number of images of Tealby pennies and I noticed that several ones have a square flan and notwithstanding a good or very good weight (some of mire than 1.40 grams) and quite well centred struck, as if they were in a good condition compared to mint state, without significant clipping... so suggesting original use of square flan just at the moment of minting.
Pennies from Lucca (one of the main imperial mints in Italy) had a vastly wide circulation especially from the beginning of the twelfth century (up to the Holy Land and Germany) and series struck from the beginning of the twelfth century show in most case scarce flan of square form: it is acknowledged that it was due to the minting process, as the flans were cut in a square form by scissors and then bent by the angles and hammered to give them a some-circular form, but in periods of very huge production the flans were left of square form to spare time and hasten minting process.
So, I had an idea: could the square flan of some Tealby pennies prove an occurrence similar to what happened in Lucca and maybe elsewhere in the need of producing huge number of coins in limited time, such as in the case of a recoinage? have you ever heard such an hypothesis, and if so, have you some references? maybe the square-flan Tealby pennies are mainly of "A" type, showing the need to speed up coinage at the time of the initial recoinage?
Thanks to all could share their thoughts!

Ulpianensis
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JohnConduitt's Avatar
United Kingdom
725 Posts
 Posted 11/04/2023  8:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The flans were cut out, so it could be. I don't know if the square flans were limited to Class A (Class F also has square flans) but that doesn't mean it wasn't for the same reasons.

This paper https://www.britnumsoc.org/publicat...NJ_31_10.pdf suggests the flans might have been cut square (oversize) with shears and then made round with a circular cutter after being struck. Most Tealbys were very badly made so maybe they decided to try to miss out the cutter stage.
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Italy
8 Posts
 Posted 11/05/2023  02:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ulpianensis to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you John, very very clear and interesting, both this paper and your comment! So square-flans pennies, which appeared to me somewhat "scarce", worn and damaged and therefore less desirable to have in the collection, turn instead to be even more interesting and testify in a more evident way minting technology...
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16826 Posts
 Posted 11/05/2023  5:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's my understanding that standard practice in Norman England was that coin blanks were initially cut kind-of-square but over the standard weight, then clipped down (at the mint) to make them both rounder and the correct weight before being struck.

In this case, many of the Tealby blanks were initially cut very close to correct weight (either by accident or design) so did not need as much rounding. As far as the mint was concerned, correct weight was much more important than correct shape, or legibility of design.

Of course, the fact that coins were odd-shaped and officially clipped to start with, just made it much easier for people to unofficially and illegally clip them afterwards.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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