New 1885 5c Variety Or Counterfeit/Fake Coin

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Author	Replies: 7 / Views: 633
zhuyuecai Valued Member Canada 107 Posts	Posted 12/19/2023 12:29 pm I came across this on an auction site. It's recognized as the small 5/5 variety by PCGS and said to be the Cornwell collection, not sure what it is, but seems to be the founder of one of the coin certification companies, so, this coin is estimated to be worth quite a lot of money by the auction site. However, based on the Charlton book, The obverse side for coins between 1880 to 1890 without an 'H' at the bottom should only have 21 leaves, but it gets 22 in the image. And the '5' cents' '5' does not look good to me, and the queen's eyebrows and nose on the portrait do not look correct as well. I suspect this to be a fake coin. What do you think? Otherwise, it will be a new variety for 1885 5 cents and worth much more than the estimates. Report this Post to the Staff

kbbpll Pillar of the Community United States 4233 Posts	Posted 12/19/2023 12:51 pm Maybe there's a mistake in Charlton? Looks like an exact match to the example on coinsandcanada to me - 22 leaves, 5/5 looks exactly the same. Unless I'm missing something. https://www.numicanada.com/medias/p...ver-5-2g.jpg Report this Post to the Staff
okiecoiner Pillar of the Community Canada 5585 Posts	Posted 12/19/2023 12:55 pm This from CaC: https://www.coinsandcanada.com/coin...ts-1858-1901 Report this Post to the Staff
okiecoiner Pillar of the Community Canada 5585 Posts	Posted 12/19/2023 1:02 pm Also, Brian Cornwell was the founder of ICCS, the Canadian TPG. He was a personal collector of Vicky 5 cent silvers and was one of the finest collections of any denomination I'd ever seen. He worked closely with Bill Cross at Charlton and, once Charlton put it in the front of the book, then ICCS would cert them. Brian worked closely with ICCS and Trends. Report this Post to the Staff
DBM Pillar of the Community Canada 9862 Posts	Posted 12/19/2023 1:27 pm Quote: However, based on the Charlton book, The obverse side for coins between 1880 to 1890 without an 'H' at the bottom should only have 21 leaves, but it gets 22 in the image. You must have a fake Charlton's. The real Charlton's clearly shows the leaves on the reverse side, and has a whole page dedicated to the 22 leaves reverse which appears on all five cent coins struck between 1882 and 1889. "Dipping" is not considered cleaning... -from PCGS website Report this Post to the Staff
zhuyuecai Valued Member Canada 107 Posts	Posted 12/19/2023 1:41 pm Actually, my bad. misunderstanding the book, I cross reference with the RCM book, and realize that, the 'H' mark is not related to the number of leaves. The RFs showing in the charlton book is not all the varieties (you can't find a non-H + 22 leaves in the RFs) But in the RCM book, it does indicate that since 1882, the 22nd leaf has been added. Report this Post to the Staff
DBM Pillar of the Community Canada 9862 Posts	Posted 12/19/2023 1:46 pm What are RFs ? What is the RCM book? "Dipping" is not considered cleaning... -from PCGS website Report this Post to the Staff
zhuyuecai Valued Member Canada 107 Posts	Posted 12/19/2023 6:36 pm @DBM, by RFs I mean the varieties showing in the charlton book, like 'Victoria Reverse Variety RF1' on page78 and 'Victoria Reverse Variety RF2' on page 79. The RCM book is the annual catalogue published by RCM, I have the 2021 version, which mainly covers the commemorative coins, but also has information about the coinage in RCM's history. Report this Post to the Staff
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New 1885 5c Variety Or Fake Coin