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Help With This 1797 Britannia Penny

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Double J's Avatar
Canada
409 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2024  9:37 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Double J to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I guess I'm asking for a lot at once. I'm hoping for variety as apparently there's many. Then maybe grade and rough idea of value.

I guess if I had to pick just one it would be variety. But any additional info would be appreciated.


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John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2024  04:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think you will need to post much better photos for us to really help you.
John1
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Double J's Avatar
Canada
409 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2024  07:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Double J to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, I'll try a bunch of different things. The coins is really dark so am having a difficult time.
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Double J's Avatar
Canada
409 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2024  11:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Double J to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, updated photos...I think there OK...but thought the same with the last ones. I saturated the coin in light this time.


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John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2024  11:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lots better
John1
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Double J's Avatar
Canada
409 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2024  11:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Double J to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, good. Just note again the coin looks more like the earlier photos.lol Very dark, definitely not as bright as the latter.
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PaddyB's Avatar
United Kingdom
945 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2024  1:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PaddyB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Those pictures are a lot better, but to really get into detail you are probably going to need a microscope!
There are two main forms for the obverse, officially designated by the number of leaves in the Wreath - 10 or 11. As this is often very difficult to check on more worn examples, the best way to tell is by the tip of the loose end of the ribbon behind George's head - pointing downwards is 10 leave, pointing outwards is 11 leaves. I think yours is the "outwards" 11 leaf variety, but you can probably tell better with a loupe.
The basic design for the reverse is common to both obverses, but there are minor variations in the form of the ship - again you would need to magnify considerably to see which you have. This website: https://headsntails14.wordpress.com...ii-obverses/ gives you all the detail you can spot.
Condition of your coin is not great. The lack of edge knocks is a bonus, but there is a fair amount of wear on the high points as well as a lot of digs in the fields. On UK grading I would say "about Fine" at best.
Value, as always, is a bit of a guess. I wouldn't expect to pay more than £10 or £15 for one like that, but at auction who knows these days?
Here is my current place holder for a 10 leaf variety. (I have not attempted to get into the ship varieties):


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Double J's Avatar
Canada
409 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2024  2:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Double J to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, thanks for all that. I'll see what I can figure out with my loupe. Disappointed with the grade but respect it. I always am surprised with large copper coins because I'm so used to silver smaller coins. After seeing your example though I get it. Especially about the high points. Any real significance between the 10 and 11 in terms of rarity or just for the sake of knowing which it is?
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PaddyB's Avatar
United Kingdom
945 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2024  3:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PaddyB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In the 2018 Spink catalogue the 10 leaf in Fine is given as £12, the 11 leaf at £15, so the latter is deemed scarcer.
In top grades the values diverge hugely - in EF the 10 leaf is £175, the 11 leaf £700!
Bear in mind, I am grading on the UK standard, not the US, so you may get a very different answer from our US brethren. Also, I grade "old-fashioned" - not "Ebay-hyped"!
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