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Hibid 1785 Vermont Copper In Last Night's Auction- Thoughts?

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burfle23's Avatar
United States
517 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2024  6:53 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add burfle23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Anyone see this auction last night? 63 bids and no one bidding had a clue (except possibly 1)?

Hibid-1785-Vermont-Copper-In-Last-Night's-Auction--Thoughts?

Hibid-1785-Vermont-Copper-In-Last-Night's-Auction--Thoughts?

Only one variety for the type; genuine example on the right:

Hibid-1785-Vermont-Copper-In-Last-Night's-Auction--Thoughts?

Hibid-1785-Vermont-Copper-In-Last-Night's-Auction--Thoughts?
Edited by burfle23
02/04/2024 8:26 pm
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nickelsearcher's Avatar
United States
15388 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2024  7:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsearcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No ... I did not view the auction.

For the record, I also have limited knowledge of this series of coins, so in that regard would appreciate an explanation as to why you brought this particular example to our attention.
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art
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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2024  09:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is the R9 "Cheap Plow" variety (Tryharder QQ-z.99) with the characteristic "googly eyes" sun face, ex: Dewey/Cheatham and Howe.

Jokes aside, this is an interesting study piece for a variety of reasons. The planchet looks suitably aged, if very dark, with uneven denticles and the large area that resembles a weak strike on the reverse, and other areas that look like die rust or porosity. I somewhat wonder if this wasn't overstruck on something else of a similar vintage.

Any thoughts on how the obverse die was made? Was it hand cut by someone copying off an existing example? Doesn't really look like a cast.

Also, any thoughts as to when this might have been done?

I do find it a bit surprising that it reached $550 - VT coppers are a fairly niche area of collecting, and most people bidding on them are likely to be at least somewhat familiar with the different types. Perhaps the low bid on a scarce type allowed emotion to overrule reason. This is a mid four figure coin for a genuine example in this condition!

(I still need a VERMONTS and VERMONTIS for my own collection, but unless stacks of money fall out of the sky in my front yard, that's not likely to happen.)
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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burfle23's Avatar
United States
517 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2024  7:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add burfle23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I actually (slowly) collect Vermonts and spend some time when I can studying them. I am always amazed when I see something like this get this number of bids and not be genuine, unless some bidders wanted to add this fake to their collection. A genuine VERMONTIS is missing from my collection as well, but this is not the one I wanted to add!

A good friend and early copper collector alerted me to this example in this auction; I have a whole file folder of bad coins listed in various HiBid auctions, but this was the 1st "Vermont copper".

After some email discussions the sale was cancelled and the auction company responsible is pursuing sending it out for "authentication" as a service to the consignor. I told them they should save him the money,,,
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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2024  10:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've got a VERMONTENSIUM, and two Bust Rights. The Bust Left is incredibly expensive, and VERMONTIS is not outrageous but I'd rather have a nice original Chain cent for the money.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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