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 Replies: 25 / Views: 1,896 |
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Moderator
 United States
94765 Posts |
here is a 1697 William III - 6 Pence silver coin. I got the classification on this one spot on (or is it?) I'm almost positive it is a 6 pence coin, I've matched up pretty much everything I could. Except for one item on the reverse See the circled area in the third image. then a close up in the fourth image. I see 2 lines or boarders surrounding the center element. But I cannot find ANY that has the double boarder - all the examples I found only have one. Anyone out there able to direct me to the correct destination on this coin? https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces12966.html <---6 Pence https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces12973.html <---Shilling EDIT to fix the title and opening statement date.
However, I did name the images correctly with the right date. (What was running through my head at that point?)    Edited by Dearborn
02/13/2024 3:18 pm
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
312 Posts |
I think thats a shilling instead of a sixpence. I've checked my sixpences and all single.
Have you checked diameter etc?
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Moderator
 United States
94765 Posts |
Quote:
I think thats a shilling instead of a sixpence. I've checked my sixpences and all single.
Have you checked diameter etc? I think I did, I have so many I went through the past few days - and getting better at checking weight and diameter, but I could have forgotten on this one. I'll check when I get home and report back with my findings Thanks for the input. Your (the UK) old coinage can be so confusing at times. |
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Moderator
United States
94765 Posts |
Question:
Looking at hte info on Numista for the Shilling, there are "Long ties" and "Short ties" - what are they talking about? what ties? the hair ties or the ones coming from behind and down the chest?
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
312 Posts |
The ties are indeed the hair ties. William III coinage underwent numerous changes during the great recoinage
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
945 Posts |
Yes, I think a shilling rather than a sixpence, but the diameter would confirm. Also 1697 of course, not 1698! That also opens up all the provincial mints and their varieties. I think I see the remains of a B or E under the bust, which would make it Bristol or Exeter and a bit more interesting. My 1697 London mint shilling has traces of the second line around the shield, though not as clear as the OP example:  |
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Moderator
United States
94765 Posts |
Whoops, it IS a 97! How the heck could I get that wrong?
I'll go get that weight and diameter.. hold please.
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
312 Posts |
For British Silver, I'd recommend grabbing a copy of "English Silver Coinage Since 1649" by Maurice Bull. It's almost like the bible of British silver coinage and has some fantastic diagrams and explanations, along with the relative rarity of the coin.
Worth the £55, or $70, if you haven't got one.
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Moderator
United States
94765 Posts |
Well I was correct on the sixpence - it weighs 2.78g and has a diameter of 21mm but wrong on the date. It is a 1697 - I'll go fix that up in the title in a minute. So I must likely did get all the measurements before deciding on the 6 pence vs shilling thing, which is what prompted my query on the shield border lines (which now still stands - Why are they on this coin?) I cannot find any image of this year coin and face value with them on it.. all the ones I find only have one border.   |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
945 Posts |
I have had a long look at ESC and the doubled surround on the Scottish shield is still a mystery. No mention is made of such a variation in the text and the pictures are not good enough to see if it is present in any of the examples shown. None of my 1697 sixpences display it, but the shillings do, which is why I assumed it must have been a shilling. The coins of 1696 and 1697 show large variations with over-struck letters, missing stops, rotated shields and so on, so this may be another not previously noted.
I am still interested to know if the OP coin has a letter under the bust? I can't be certain from the photos but it looks to be something there - possibly a B or an E, but varieties with B over E and E over B are also listed.
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Moderator
United States
94765 Posts |
I was looking for a 'B' under the bust for the Bristol mint when I posted it up at first, I forgot to look yesterday when I got the weight and size. I'll look as soon as I get home and post up my results (around 1300 [1 PM] my time - GMT -7)
So, is it possible that I found a variety in these coins? One previously unknown? I mean the one I have cannot simply be a 'one-off' strike, can it?
Edited by Dearborn
02/14/2024 06:26 am
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Moderator
United States
94765 Posts |
Quote:
For British Silver, I'd recommend grabbing a copy of "English Silver Coinage Since 1649" by Maurice Bull. It's almost like the bible of British silver coinage and has some fantastic diagrams and explanations, along with the relative rarity of the coin.
Worth the £55, or $70, if you haven't got one. Thanks - I'll go have a look for that... edit - found it for $67.33 USD Edited by Dearborn
02/14/2024 06:43 am
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
945 Posts |
It is possible you have a new variety. Having said that, there are so many varieties for these dates already that I doubt it would command much of a premium in that condition. The bigger varieties - changes of main dies, rotated shields etc, do have serious collectors, so you never know.
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Moderator
United States
94765 Posts |
Thanks Paddy - I wasn't too worried about value (yet) just the discovery.. I wonder if there is someplace I can present it to, to have it attributed..... maybe Numista..  Once I get that book mentioned above, I'll have a look in it to see if there is any listing for that.. Edited by Dearborn
02/14/2024 06:47 am
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
945 Posts |
I think your best bet would be to contact the author of ESC - Maurice Bull - if he is still around!
I have 6th edition of ESC published 2015 and that gives a contact email of mauricebull at btinternet dot com.
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Moderator
United States
94765 Posts |
Thanks again That is very helpful. I'll do just that. Probably when I get home, I'll remove it from the 2x2 and get better images of it some with my scope of certain areas, (like under the bust) to submit it to him. and get that answer for you at the same time about that 'B' too  |
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Replies: 25 / Views: 1,896 |
Posted 02/13/2024 12:41 pm
Uncirculated American Silver Eagles 
