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Replies: 12 / Views: 2,200 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1882 Posts |
This coin is designated as " Close AM", yet it is a business strike coin.  Teletrade sells some lower priced slabs, so off I go looking for more examples...here's a " Close AM" from year 2000. Note that they describe the coin as a rare variety. http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot....622&lot=1151There are plenty of slabbed cents from 1998-2000 that do not contain any designation at all, which means they should be " Close AM" coins. So, what is special about these particular " Close AM" business strike coins? Are there three types of reverses on these coins (Regular AM, Wide AM, and Close AM)? By the way, this is not only an NGC distinction. PCGS has designated some business strike from these years as " Close AM".   Edited by steve199 04/16/2009 1:31 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1882 Posts |
I'm talking to myself now. :)
Here's my theory: whoever submitted these coins paid extra for the attribution, hoping that they'd be able to sell the coin to someone for a premium.
Edited by steve199 04/16/2009 1:42 pm
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Valued Member
United States
369 Posts |
I'm pretty sure 1998, 99, 00 cents are supposed to be Close AM. The "rare variety" is the Wide AM for these dates.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1807 Posts |
I'm confused, maybe that's what they wanted.
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Valued Member
United States
369 Posts |
Maybe they're betting that people don't know the difference. But if someone's in the market for an MS67 1999 cent...they should know a thing or two about coins, like close/wide AMs.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1882 Posts |
Quote: Maybe they're betting that people don't know the difference. That was my theory in my reply to myself. But even that "bet" doesn't make sense to me. Having a coin graded and attributed is not a cheap proposition (approaches $100). Why spend that much on a coin worth less than $10, just to hope you fool someone into paying you $75? The first coin I posted is a proof-like coin that sold on Heritage for $175. I can't find any other PL coins to see what kind of premium that brings.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
Taken from the Teletrade link above, I think this writeup is just as faulty/misleading as many of those ebay auctions.  Quote: This coin features a smaller than typical gap between the letters AM of AMERICA. This close proximity of lettering is known as 'Close AM.' First noticed on Philadelphia and Denver Cents in 1992 and later as well in 1999 San Francisco issues these varieties are noted as extremely rare. Hmm... big difference between a 1999-S proof Close AM and this MS coin. One is rare, and the other not. But I can only guess NGC labels the slab as " Close AM" to actually prevent confusion?  That's not a variety.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1807 Posts |
Quote: I think this writeup is just as faulty/misleading Bunch of crooks/scam artists if you were to ask me.
Edited by rockdude 04/16/2009 4:13 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1882 Posts |
Quote:But I can only guess NGC labels the slab as " Close AM" to actually prevent confusion? No, both NGC and PCGS grade 1998, 1999, and 2000 business strike cents with no "AM" designation at all. But they also slab some with " Close AM" on them. The submitter would have to pay extra to get that attribution (I suppose). So I guess this is merely an example of fools and their money parting ways.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
Sounds a little weird to me . It's a normal coin. The Close AM is meaningless on the slab. Even MS-67 is no big deal. Someone is going to get ripped.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
I think the slabbing company should share culpability on this. They were irresponsible in slabbing normal coins with their obvious and common variety. They should know full well that when a 'variety' is mentioned on the slab, people will automatically assume it's the rare one without looking. The actual story, however, is more likely this: These varieties were not discovered until 2002. From 1999 through 2002 all 1999 cents were slabbed as '1999' cents. After the discovery of the variety, BOTH varieties could be slabbed as to what they are, thus the existence of the two different designations. So there are actually three different sets of coin numbers for these cents. No variety and Close AM variety (which are actually identical), and Wide AM variety which is scarce. I wonder if they would create a new coin number if someone insisted on having a 1960 cent slabbed as a "large date"?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1882 Posts |
Chuck, looks like you are right. First, I thought I found a PCGS example that says " Close AM" earlier, but I can't find it now. So this is only NGC that is doing this. The NGC examples that *don't* say Close AM look like NGC holders from before 2002. I compared them to a photo history of NGC slabs that was posted somewhere by Conder101. So the "bad guy" here is Teletrade for calling the " Close AM" coins rare (or for allowing their consignors to use such a description). Thanks, steve
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4113 Posts |
Quote: "This coin features a smaller than typical gap between the letters AM of America" Really? If that were the case, than exactly how small is the "TYPICAL" gap supposed to be on any 1999 cent that is not a MS67 RD PL? Completely wrong and misleading. Quote: First noticed on Philadelphia and Denver Cents in 1992 and later as well in 1999 SAN FRANCISCO issues THESE varieties are noted as extremely rare. I highlighted "SAN FRANCISCO" and THESE, so in reality this line is correct in what they said. Quote: Making this variety rare is the fact that the close lettering was a specific die trait of business strike issues for Philadelphia and Denver. This line is double-talk! State exactly that the rare Close AM was for 1992 P & D cents and the 1999S Proof cent mentioned in the above sentence. They make it out that this coin is the extremely rare variety! How can this Business Strike Close AM be extremely rare and then be a specific die trait of Business Strike issues for Philadelphia and Denver? The coin for sale obviously is not a S mint (PROOF) which is the extremely rare and valuable one as a 1999S Close AM. This is a classic example of knowing exactly what you are reading and looking at before you buy it! "CAVEAT EMPTOR"
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Replies: 12 / Views: 2,200 |
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