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Are Population Numbers Accurate?

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Brandmeister's Avatar
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 Posted 08/26/2024  11:55 am Show Profile   Check Brandmeister's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add Brandmeister to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have encountered the situation below on several different varieties now. Sometimes, the grid shows a blank population (implying zero) but there are auction results logged. Other times, the number of TrueView images at a particular grade is obviously more than the population number.

So how accurate are the population numbers? Ironclad? Usually accurate? Grain-of-salt accurate? Laughable?

Are-Population-Numbers-Accurate?
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Alpha2814's Avatar
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 Posted 08/26/2024  8:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You're kind of answering your own question here, but a link to at least one of these PCGS pages would help us see the problem better and maybe provide more insight.
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BStrauss3's Avatar
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 Posted 08/27/2024  2:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They reduce populations when coins are cracked out and labels are returned.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
Edited by BStrauss3
08/27/2024 2:25 pm
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Brandmeister's Avatar
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 Posted 08/27/2024  4:05 pm  Show Profile   Check Brandmeister's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Brandmeister to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Alpha, the particular coin page was below. But this is something that I have seen repeatedly in browsing and researching varieties of nickels.

https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin...s-502/415692

BStrauss, I hadn't realized that people retire certs when they crack coins out. That's very courteous of them. I assume those coins are going into albums? It would seem self-defeating to crack out a rare coin for regrading and then tell PCGS you coincidentally retired a slab for a nearly identical coin.
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Alpha2814's Avatar
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 Posted 08/27/2024  5:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the link -- in that example, the detail for the auctioned item is at https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/...941791892459 where there is a certification number shown, but it gives a "not found" when clicked. The original item at the auction site is at https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/l...k-ms-65-pcgs but there is no slab or certification number shown there to confirm it. That auction ended in June 2010.

However, looking at the MS66 example, that one went for auction in January 2016, and it appears to be the same coin: https://coins.ha.com/itm/a/1231-4876.s -- there's a mark on Jefferson's cheek behind his eye and another in front of his eye, and a white spot in the center of the top field on the reverse.

In this case, it looks like this coin was a 65 then later resubmitted/graded as 66. The auction listings just show the sales for each grade, which is useful to know for historical pricing, even if the same coin.
Edited by Alpha2814
08/27/2024 5:14 pm
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Brandmeister's Avatar
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 Posted 08/27/2024  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Check Brandmeister's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Brandmeister to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting, thanks for explaining the auction forensics. I guess when the graded population numbers are so low, every little quirk is visible.
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BStrauss3's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2024  4:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Brandmeister: Key is labels are returned.

If you crack and trash, or paste the label in the back of the album, it's still in the population.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2024  4:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If you crack and trash, or paste the label in the back of the album, it's still in the population.
This.

I have cracked three slabs to fill album holes. I kept the labels. The coins are free, but still in the population report.
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Australia
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 Posted 09/18/2024  02:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nealeffendi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Populations can be wildly out. When they create a new variety the population of that variety only includes those graded after they recognise that variety. For example in 2017 for the Australian 1953 florin they recognised the Large Denticle variety and the Small Denticle variety. But in the population report all the pre 2017 graded '53s are counted as Small. Worse yet their identification skills are abysmal as I know of 2 Large in Small slabs and 3 Medium in Large slabs and they include Medium with Small as they don't recognise the Mediums as from a different hub to the Small.
In my collection I have a similar problem with 1926 sixpences and 1952 pennies so it appears to be a standard problem whenever new varieties are recognised.
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