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Copper Morgan Dollar

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Pillar of the Community

United States
772 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2006  11:35 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jdheyne to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello all.
Yesterday, I saw something I never knew existed.
It was a copper Morgan dollar.
It was in awful shape. It was holed, and then the hole was broke away making kind of a trianlgle chip. But there were no two ways about it being copper.
I am not sure on the exact date, I believe it was in the 80's and possibly an O mintmark?

Can anyone provide info on this?

Thanks!
Jordan
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Susanlynn9's Avatar
United States
5877 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2006  11:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know that there are some commonly counterfeited Morgans. Perhaps it was one of those.
Pillar of the Community
United States
772 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2006  12:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdheyne to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am pretty sure that it was not a fake, but a possibility.
The guy that showed it to me is a Morgan nut.
He is a friend, was not trying to sell it or was not trying to pull one over on me.
So I am assuming you are not familiar with that?
Valued Member
Joeyuk's Avatar
United States
383 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2006  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Joeyuk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Copper-Morgan-Dollar

There are some copper patterns which look alot like Morgans. If it was in bad shape I doubt it was a pattern. Perhaps a copper plated Morgan? After all it was holed so it could have been plated for jewelery.

http://store.yahoo.net/uspatterns/

I forgot I picked these up a couple years ago. Talking about copper Morgans reminded me of them.

Copper-Morgan-Dollar

Just don't get too excited cause here's the reverse.


































Copper-Morgan-Dollar
Edited by Joeyuk
04/05/2006 1:19 pm
Bedrock of the Community
Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2006  2:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If I am not mistaken there was a pattern of a morgan made of copper but it has E PLURIBUS UNUM stamped around the edge of the coin. I have not ever seen one but I read about it somewhere when I first started collecting morgans. I got the information from the web so you can take the information as true or false I am not sure (you know how the internet is, just because you read it doesn't mean its true)
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Joeyuk's Avatar
United States
383 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2006  3:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Joeyuk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your right about the Morgan pattern.

Copper-Morgan-Dollar
Pillar of the Community
United States
772 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2006  4:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdheyne to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now that you mention it, he did say it was a pattern.
It was in an estate buy out. It was very pourous/corroded, but no mistaken it was copper. Not just plated because where the break was in the coin, solid copper.
I do not think it was in good enough shape to see the E PLUR around the edge.
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2006  8:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With my collecting background - I am suspicious that what you saw may be a simple period forgery. They were very common in copper before the silver prices fell in the early 1890s. A date in the 1880s would be pretty typical. The copper struck coins were made to look a bit worn and were plated or dipped in a silver paint. Some were dipped in Mercury.

You indicated that the coin was holed. That could be a telling feature. It was a common practice for bankers and merchants to drill a hole in coins they believed were forgeries. The old saying that something is not worth a "Plugged nickel" comes from the placing of a hole in a 5 cent coin. Nickel was considered a worthless metal compared to silver and a plugged nickel was doubly worthless.

Any coin with a hole was no longer fit for circulation. So I always look extra hard at coins with drill holes. Before you assume that all holes are intended for jewelry give consideration to the placement of the hole. A hole at top dead center right near the rim might be for jewelry. Traces of wear on the top side might be taken as evidence of use as a pendant. But holes through the date, through the dead center (a favorite of English Banks) or in a location so that the design would not hang right side up are more likely to be cancellations. If the coins also have scratched "X" marks or rim notches - the chances of it being a cancellation increase greatly.

I heard a story from a Banker in Plymouth, Mass years ago who was a 4th generation member of the banking trade. He recalls stories from his grandfather of all coins being weighed and gold coins being valued at weight as opposed to face value. He also related that his grandfather's bank had a ring of counterfeit coins in the head teller's cage. Each coin was drilled randomly and they were kept on a metal ring to assist with identifying forgeries. If you think about it - how else could you tell what a fake looked like - no Xerox back then.

The recently identified micro O forgeries - were actually identified as forgeries as far back as the mid 1970s by a friend of mine in Boston. He attributed them to the period in the early 1900s when silver fell below 30 cents an ounce. No one believed him back then because they were full weight silver and the conventional wisdom was that all full weight silver coins were real. Only recently has the existance of widespread forgery to supply merchants with silver coin for the China trade become known.

So if it is a fake - it may be an early one (before 1890). Drilled to cancel it and thereafter carried by someone as a "lucky" piece. One of my first counterfeit purchases was a drilled 1839 counterfeit 25 cent coin that a friend's grandfather had carried as a pocket piece for many years.
Pillar of the Community
United States
772 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2006  11:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdheyne to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will be heading there on Tuesday. I will take some pics of it when I go.
Jordan
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