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French Revolution Coin - Questions On Date

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New Member

United States
11 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2009  2:16 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jennyOH to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello!
My husband has always wanted to own French coins from the time of the Revolution. He recently bought one at a local antiques fair that seems to be from the right time period, but we are unsure of the exact date. We'd also like to find out some more of the coin's "story", if that makes sense - why it has the particular imagery and what it means, for example.

The coin is fairly large and copper colored. The obverse has a left-facing bust circled by the words "LOUIS XVI ROI DES FRANCAISES". The back has a fascia (Roman bundle of sticks, symbol of Republic) topped by a Phrygian cap, surrounded by a wreath. I believe this is a symbol of the French Republic.

The date is below the portrait on the front, but we are having trouble making it out. The seller said it was 1799, but Louis XVI had been executed in 1792, so that date doesn't make sense to us. The top loops of the last two numbers of the date are the only parts visible, and they definitely seem to be different numbers - the left loop looks narrower, perhaps an 8. I think the date is 1789, which seems to make sense historically, as the Revolution had taken place but the king had not yet been deposed - hence both his portrait and the symbol of the Republic on the same coin.

What do you all think? What is the value of this coin (its actual value, I mean - we can't tell if it's a louis/ecu/whatever), any ideas about the year? Apologies in advance for the picture quality!


French-Revolution-Coin---Questions-On-Date

French-Revolution-Coin---Questions-On-Date
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2009  4:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to the community.

The date is 1792 and it is a 2 Sols coin. The images aren't clear enough to see the mint mark.
Edited by echizento
05/28/2009 4:54 pm
Pillar of the Community
Belgium
651 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2009  5:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bart to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is indeed an interesting coin in view of the French Revolution: the Bastille has fallen into the hands of the people in 1789. The king remained Head of State, but as a constitutional king. He didn't rule "by the grace of God" anymore.
This is also very visible on the coin itself: the fasces and the Phrygian cap are symbols of the revolution.Around this symbols are the words: La Nation, La Loi, Le Roi (the Nation, the Law, the King), putting the king as a subject of the Nation and the Law, not as an owner of the Nation, or an imposer of Law anymore. In the same way the legends say: Louis XVI, Roi des Français (Louis XVI, king of the French) as a kind of first citizen. Before the revolution you could find on the coins: Louis XVI, by the grace of God, king of France and Navarra, as if ha was the owner of the kingdom.

Also, the date is put twice: following the Gregorian calender, but also following the new Revolutionary calender, where the year 1789 was set as year 1 of liberty.

Your particular coin was minted in Strasbourg (BB mintmark). The mintmark isn't clear on the picture, but Strasbourg was the only mint using the word (Roi des) FRANçAIS instead of (Roi des) FRANçOIS. This coin has been minted with dates:
-1792 / L'An 4 de la liberte
-1793 / L'An 4 de la liberte
-1793 / L'An 5 de la liberte
(note: year 1 of the French revolutionary calender started on Sept.22 1789 and ended on Sept. 21 1790. Thats the reason you can have 2 different years- 1792 and 1793- as year 4 of liberty)

As echizento already stated: the nominal value is of 2 sols.
King Louis XVI was beheaded on Jan.21 1793 and not in 1792.
Edited by bart
05/28/2009 5:40 pm
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wwhitman's Avatar
United States
1415 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2009  6:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wwhitman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to CCF
with echizento and bart.
Bart did put in perspective the history associated with coin quite well. Excellent dissertation Bart.
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Peter THOMAS's Avatar
Australia
2830 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2009  7:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Peter THOMAS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
G'day,
Jenny, great start to a "French Collection".
Bart, I commend your summary.
Coins with the portrait of the King, and date 1793 seem to me to be the most poignant, given that they represent a 21-day overlap.
Peter in Oz
Pillar of the Community
Belgium
651 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2009  02:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bart to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's more than a 21-day overlap: these coins have been struck after the execution of the king. The 1793/year 5 coin represents the period from September 22 to December 31, 1793.
New Member
United States
11 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2009  11:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jennyOH to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, thanks for all the information! Good to see our ideas about the coin's imagery were correct. I had actually thought the date might have been 1792 but wasn't sure if they would still be minting coins with the king on them at that point. Very interesting historically.

Couple more questions: Is this a rare coin today? What would be an approximate price? Are coins from the French revolution hard to find in general? I know this would depend on where you are, but I'm wondering if there were lots minted in the first place, and if it's likely that many would have survived or would have been melted down.

Thanks again for all the help
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wwhitman's Avatar
United States
1415 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2009  1:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wwhitman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
JennyOh,
Good to see that you and husband want to continue collecting. You have picked an excellent topic.
French coins are available from this era, just takes some digging around.
Once you reach 50 posts, you can query this site to acquire coins also.
Good luck hunting
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thq's Avatar
United States
3343 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2009  06:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The revolutionary coins are not that hard to find in worn condition, but are rare in higher grades. I think this is because they were not demonetized and continued to circulate for 40-50 years due to a scarcity of small change in France. 2 sols had a value of 2 decimes in the decimal system, for instance. You can find plenty on cgb.fr, or ebay (.com or .fr).

You might also like the decimal post-revolutionary coinage. Most are by Dupre. One of his designs was also the inspiration for the early US Liberty Cap coins.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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