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ID Help - Denar Otto III?, Germany. Worms?

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Sweden
447 Posts
 Posted 07/21/2025  07:27 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Wallet to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi!
I need help for more identification of this coin. Denar, maybe Otto III and maybe from Worms. Any better ideas? Weigth 1.27 gram. Diameter 18.5 mm.

ID-Help---Denar-Otto-III?,-Germany.-Worms?
ID-Help---Denar-Otto-III?,-Germany.-Worms?
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
187702 Posts
 Posted 07/22/2025  12:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very interesting. Hopefully someone will be able to properly identify this for you.
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7934 Posts
 Posted 07/23/2025  06:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Letters I think I see on the church side are M (12:00) C (3:00) V (9:00), so Magdeburg could be another option, though I think that letter at 3:00 looks more like a C than a G.
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces373973.html

On cross side, I think we can see RE O , so it would have been struck before he became emperor?

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jbuck's Avatar
United States
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34397 Posts
 Posted 07/23/2025  08:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good thought @tdz. Unfortunately several HRE city states issued coins with the OTTOs (i.e. I have one from Goslar). In comparing the numista listings for Madeburg and Worms, I'm not sure that either is a close-enough match to get a positive attribution. I say this based on the shape of the temple and the pellets/letters in the angles of the short cross.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces350247.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces373973.html

Added: I do note that this coin of Worms (Dann 2060) seems to be a better match for the cross (three pellets plus an omega) but not a great match for the temple:

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3859855
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
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"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
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Valued Member
Sweden
447 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2025  04:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wallet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi!
Thank you for your answers.
There are similars also from Meinz and Speier. But it's hard to figure out which.
My pictures from Danneberg

ID-Help---Denar-Otto-III?,-Germany.-Worms?
ID-Help---Denar-Otto-III?,-Germany.-Worms?
ID-Help---Denar-Otto-III?,-Germany.-Worms?
ID-Help---Denar-Otto-III?,-Germany.-Worms?
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7934 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2025  5:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
WCN sells many of these Otto denars (probably over 100 per year).

THis one matches the objects in the corner of the cross, and it has a cross in the center of the church (rather than a pellet). They have it as Worms, Dbg 1914, but there is very little of the legend to try and compare.
https://wcn.pl/archive/174030
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34397 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2025  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Super detective work @tdz. I think that you have nailed it. In looking at Dannenberg III, I see this description of the design elements for #1914:

Obv: Cross with bullet in angles 1, 3, and 4. Wedge and half-moon in angle #2.
Rev: Wooden church as before, but with a small cross.

As far as inscriptions go, they appear to be something like OTTOA and WORMACAI, although coins with fully-struck inscriptions were evidently not available to Dannenberg.

And @wall, it looks like your first instincts well spot-on.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7934 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2025  09:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That confirms that what I thought was a V is part of a W, and the other letters were on target. So the legend starts around 9:00, and we can see W(partial) O (very faint) M A(partial) C .
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Sweden
447 Posts
 Posted 07/27/2025  3:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wallet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Spence and @tdziemia great! Thank you!
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