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2017 Philadelphia Minted Lincoln Shield Cent Struck On Bronze Planchet

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LilyBug18's Avatar
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 Posted 02/04/2026  12:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LilyBug18 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The devices they use for metallurgic testing—if it wouldn't take an accounting of the metal object that you are testing in its entirety—then I wouldn't be looking for pennies but rather gold coins that aren't really gold, just a real thick layer of gold coating. You know what I'm saying? A lot of people believe that the XRF testing process is strictly secluded to the surface of the coin, and that's not true at all. Whenever a metal test is conducted with some of the higher-end devices, it takes a complete accounting of the coin, and not only that, if it was a layer, the machine that they use would be able to detect that as well."
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 Posted 02/04/2026  12:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You could always crack it out and drop the coin on a kitchen counter or other hard surface. If it gives off a sharp ring, that would support PCGS's findings. If it gives off a dull thunk, that would indicate the presence of a zinc core.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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LilyBug18's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 02/04/2026  12:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LilyBug18 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The devices they use for metallurgic testing—if it wouldn't take an accounting of the metal object that you are testing in its entirety—then I wouldn't be looking for pennies but rather gold coins that aren't really gold, just a real thick layer of gold coating. You know what I'm saying? A lot of people believe that the XRF testing process is strictly secluded to the surface of the coin, and that's not true at all. Whenever a metal test is conducted with some of the higher-end devices, it takes a complete accounting of the coin, and not only that, if it was a layer, the machine that they use would be able to detect that as well."
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LilyBug18's Avatar
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 Posted 02/04/2026  1:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LilyBug18 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a video that explains the metallurgic testing utilizing xrf it takes a complete accounting of the object or substance you are testing even a very thick coating would not manipulate the test results
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LilyBug18's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 02/04/2026  1:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LilyBug18 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It does not specify what machine PCGS uses for their metallurgic testing, but these machines are extremely precise if they are in working condition as well as calibrated. There was a lot of doubt, which is understandable, but if it was only measuring the surface of the coin, then I would be very, very skeptical about purchasing any gold or silver coins slab. Because in a PCGS order, or any mint error that is labeled to be struck on a particular type of planchet, they all had to go through x-ray fluorescent testing—all of them.
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 Posted 02/04/2026  2:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Neither you nor PCGS have provided any information regarding beam strength or depth of penetration. Considering that PCGS has slabbed many cents struck on foreign copper-plated zinc planchets as "copper", I have no confidence in their determinations.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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HGK3's Avatar
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594 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2026  2:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HGK3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But why does a 99% copper planchet weigh 10% less (2.87g vs 3.11g) than a 95% copper planchet of the same size?

Since copper is denser than zinc, shouldn't the planchet with more copper weigh more than the planchet with less, assuming all other dimensions are equal?
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LilyBug18's Avatar
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 Posted 02/04/2026  2:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LilyBug18 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The majority of pennies weigh \(3\text{\ g}\)-\(3.1\text{\ g}\), but there are also numerous pennies that weigh \(3.2\text{\ g}\) or even \(3.3\text{\ g}\). Conversely, some weigh between \(2.8\text{\ g}\) and \(2.9\text{\ g}\), which is still within the range of what is considered acceptable. There are also tests you can conduct to determine the density of an object made of a particular material. Nonetheless, the most crucial test that determined the outcome was X-ray Fluorescence (XRF) testing. There is no way to manipulate that test; if there were, people would be exploiting it to pass coins through grading companies. Furthermore, Jon Sullivan—a very knowledgeable and professional individual—certified the coin himself and provided his recommendation. 
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bobby131313's Avatar
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 Posted 02/04/2026  2:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What beam strength XRF does PCGS use?
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LilyBug18's Avatar
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 Posted 02/04/2026  2:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LilyBug18 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It doesn't specifically say what "beam strength" is being utilized but I think it's just a standard calibration for the machine in general the adds reassurance and effectiveness.
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bobby131313's Avatar
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 Posted 02/04/2026  2:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So you have no idea the depth it analyzes, as it's directly related. You should listen to Mike Diamond.

We do not do AI here, it's wrong as often as it's right.
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LilyBug18's Avatar
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 Posted 02/04/2026  2:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LilyBug18 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The fact that matter is, these machines used to conduct metallurgic testing are worth their weight in gold, figuratively and literally. Lots of precious metal dealers, whether it be jewelry or simply precious metal exchanges, utilize and rely upon these machines, and yes, they are non-intrusive. In some situations that's necessary, when you have a high-end gold coin that's worth hundreds, if not millions, of dollars. This is what they turn to. And I'm sure people try their best to pass off fake coins coated in gold.

And yes, there are some videos where people are showing that these machines are 100% accurate, but it's just usually a video promoting another one of these machines. I just think that there was maybe a calibration issue or something was being done incorrectly. I don't think there is a beam strength, but I don't know. I don't own one of these machines. I don't really know anything about them other than what information is available. But I do know that multiple people utilize these machines to conduct very serious business with very serious money.

In fact, the matter is, I found a penny that exchanged multiple hands, had multiple tests completed by professionals who do this every single day, who see hundreds, if not thousands, of fake coins. And the fact the matter is, I don't know what it's worth, but the fact of the matter is, this is an error coin. An individual who is capable of producing such an elaborate fake wouldn't be wasting their time and effort on a single cent, but rather items of gold, probably not even silver, because it's gold, an extreme amount of value as is. Imagine if you could produce fake gold coins that could pass these elemental tests as well as the professionals who know even the smallest indifference of the dies to produce coins in general. One condition, 1909-S VDB MS condition, as well as the 1916-D, the 1914-D. One person, take Henning nickels for instance. I found two of those in one month. I gave my brother a 1944 and I sold a 1939. I haven't found another one since, but fact the matter is...
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bobby131313's Avatar
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 Posted 02/04/2026  3:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I don't think there is a beam strength, but I don't know.


Wow.

All I'm saying, and as mentioned by a World Leader in the error coin field above, grading services have been wrong calling coins copper many times before.
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LilyBug18's Avatar
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 Posted 02/04/2026  4:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LilyBug18 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh yeah, there's many, many people—thousands of people—who say that they have this or they have that, 'I have a gold penny,' yada yada yada. But there was no test performed, and we're not just talking about a ping test. We're talking about a test that is designed for applications that are extremely important. You can't fake it; you can't manipulate it in any way, shape or form. They are using literal radiation for elemental analysis, and if it could be manipulated or cheated in such a way, then the whole numismatic community would have more skepticism for a numerical grade that changes with every submission rather than a precise radiation test."
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bobby131313's Avatar
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 Posted 02/04/2026  4:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We're talking about coins in slabs, labeled copper, and wrong.


Quote:
You can't fake it; you can't manipulate it in any way, shape or form.


That's not exactly true. If you have a thick gold plating on a copper coin (or vice-versa), and a low-strength beam XRF machine, the reading can read as gold when it's plated. I've seen it, in person, at coin show demonstrations. I've seen two different XRFs get completely different readings because the beams are different.

Why do you think people keep mentioning beams?
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