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 Replies: 8 / Views: 6,591 |
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Moderator
 Australia
16810 Posts |
Hi all,
There are several earlier threads about the pros and cons of buying Bundesbank bags (bulk lots of world coins sold by the German federal banks) but I thought I'd start a new one about the bag I procured some time ago from a local dealer. The 10 kg bag cost me AU$100 and it sat here on the floor near the computer as an oversized doorstop until I had time to go through it.
That time is now, and I can give an initial report of my findings. Here's the division, by country, with annotations of interest.
Australia: 1 - one corroded 5¢ coin
Austria: 5 - including a 10 groschen 1925 - the third-oldest coin
Belgium: 8
Botswana: 5
Brazil: 17
Bulgaria: 2
Canada: 73 - all 1¢ coins, mostly lustrous, some going back to the 1970's
Chile: 2
China (Mainland): 47 - mostly modern 1 yuan
China (Taiwan): 12
Costa Rica: 13 - all very large coins
Cyprus: 1
Czechoslovakia: 6
Denmark: 11
Dominican Republic: 1 - a very battered and dinted 1 peso
East Timor: 2
Fiji: 7 - only 1¢ and 2¢
Finland: 10 - including one 5 pennia that has a crude hole bored through it
France: 17 - including 4 aluminium pieces from the 1940's
Germany (Federal): 4 - surprising to find any, considering the source
Germany (East): 11
Ghana: 1 - a lovely bimetallic 1 cedi 2007
Great Britain: 1 - a 1943 halfpenny
Greece: 9
Guatemala: 2 - including the only silver coin in the bag, a 5 centavos 1960. Woo. Hoo.
Hong Kong: 2
Hungary: 11
Iceland: 1
India (Republic): 18 - including some of the short-lived "cross" types
Indonesia: 18
Israel: 3
Italy: 1
Kazakstan: 1
Kenya: 1 - an extremely well worn 1980 shilling
Japan: 1 - Okinawa Expo '75 100 yen coin
Lebanon: 1 - a modern 500 livres 1997
Malaysia: 14 - only 1¢ and 5¢
Macao: 1 - corroded 10 avos 1968
Mexico: 1 - 50 pesos 1988
Morocco: 1
Namibia: 6
Netherlands: 15 - only 1¢ and 5¢
New Zealand: 7
Norway: 4
Papua New Guinea: 195 - 188 of these were 20 toea coins. I can only assume some scam was afoot.
Philippines: 595 - including 405 current 1 peso coins and 164 current 25 sentimos. Probably another scam?
Poland: 18
Portugal: 7
Romania: 3
Russia (Empire): 1 - The oldest coin in the bag, and the only pre-20th century: a 3 kopeks 1874.
Russia (Fed.): 7
Serbian Bank: 6 - all 1 dinars
Singapore: 14 all 1¢
Solomon Islands: 2
South Africa: 22 - mostly 1¢ 2¢ and 5¢
Spain: 30
Straits Settlements: 1 - a worn square 1¢ 1920, the second-oldest coin
Swaziland: 1
Sweden: 2
Switerland: 1 - only an obsolete 1 rappen
Tanzania: 5 - including the most heavily worn modern African coin I have ever seen, a 100 shilingi 1994
Thailand: 105 - 95 of these were "small type" 1 baht coins
Tonga: 14 - only 2¢ coins
Turkey: 9
Uganda: 2
USSR: 9
United States: 665 - all but one of which were Lincolns; 30% of the total number of coins in the bag. I spotted half a dozen wheaties, but haven't scrutinized them carefully yet. The only high face value US coin was a badly damaged dime.
Ukraine: 1 - a 50 kopiyok
Vietnam: 2 - both modern coins
West African States: 1 - bimetallic 200 francs
Western Samoa: 61 - another surprise. Total included 6x5¢, 25x10¢ and 30x20¢
Yugoslavia: 9
Zimbabwe: 1 - a $1 2001
Italian telephone token: 1
German car wash tokens: 2
holed blank slug "token": 1
Ostertag (?) token: 1
Reproduction mediaeval coin: 1 - from German instant coffee giveaway
Shell Oil medal: 1 - Apparently also German
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle medal: 1
Saint Barbara medal: 1 - made in Cologne, Germany
Total number of coins in bag: 2173
Average price per coin: AU$0.046019
Observations:
- The bag was relatively new (there are many 2008 Lincolns).
- Clearly the discriminators at this bank were set to pull out anything that might actually be economical to repatriate. There were NO modern Swiss, British, Japanese or (apart from the 1¢ coins) American or Canadian coins like one usually finds in "mixed world" lots.
- I suspect that many of the surprisingly more numerous coins (Philippines, PNG, Western Samoa, Thailand) are present in such quantity because they are worth more in scrap metal value than face value. I suspect someone's bought up a whole bunch of them for face, and dumped them in the Bank, wither to get scrap metal value for them or on the off-chance that the discriminators might confuse them with something even more valuable. Whatever's the cause, I suspect some kind of scam was happening.
- Some of the other anomalies (such as the Brazilians, the Serbians, the Tongans, etc) may best be explained by their superficial similarity to current Euro coins.
Conclusion: I've probably found enough in here to make it worthwhile, but my biggest problem is going to be getting rid of the duplicates. I mean, there's not a lot you can do with US$6.64 worth of Lincolns here in Australia. Nobody wants them. Unless I can find some way of getting rid of these doubles relatively cheaply and painlessly, or a closer examination coin-by-coin reveals some scarce varieties and dates, I probably won't be trying this again anytime soon. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
United States
790 Posts |
If you take a Lincoln Cent and use a slingshot they make a wonderful whirring sound as they fly. The entertainment value of this pursuit far exceeds 1c. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1082 Posts |
It's also neat if you put them on the train tracks...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3294 Posts |
Agreed on the train tracks. Don't do too many at a time though. And make sure the track is not electric.
Edited by nod2003
07/06/2009 3:29 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
507 Posts |
Your analysis is very different from the records I have from a similar bag. I am wondering if you got a bag of common (in Australia) foreign coins, packaged into a Bundesbank bag. I am suspicious of this because of the lack of Australian coins (which were present in my bag), and the high amount of coins from nearby countries (Philippines, Papua New Guinea, Samoa).
The most eyebrow raising concern is the lack of European coins, as would be expected from a collection source in Germany. I bought a 10kg bag from a vendor recommended in previous threads (worldsbestcoins, bestworldcoins, or something similar). There was a huge amount of Polish and Yugoslavian coins, and a considerable amount of pre-Euro French, Spanish, Belgian, and Dutch. There were also many coins from CCCP, Turkey, and Greece. I would say that coins from Europe accounted for 70% or more of the bag.
It's hard to make a clear judgement with a sample size of 10kg from an operation that allegedly churns out tons of coins. It's also possible that I bought a re-packaged Bundesbank bag full of foreign coins common in the USA....
-wheatiefan
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Moderator
 Australia
16810 Posts |
If it's a bag that's been "interfered" with, then at least it's most likely still got a Bundesbank bag at it's core; I doubt the German tokens would ever be seen much outside of Germany.
Nevertheless, it's possible this bag was "searched", then topped up by a local dealer and resealed. But locally sourced foreign coin mixes are different again; there's usually lots of New Zealand, British, American, Japanese, and Singapore in our stuff. PNG 20 toea and Samoan 20 sene are seen here in circulation (they're the same size and composition as our 20¢), but they aren't all that common (NZ coins are much more common). Philippine and Thai coins do turn up here too, but nowhere near these kind of quantity. Only a dealer would acquire this kind of quantity of coin. And the singularity of the denominations is odd, and made me think someone was trying to pull some kind of face-versus-scrap-value scam.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1040 Posts |
Sap, if you want to sell the Lincolns, send me a PM, I will take them. I would also be interested in at least two of each duplicates that you have for my kids.
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Moderator
Australia
16810 Posts |
OK, I've finally finished scrutinizing the bag, coin by coin. Yes, it really did take me most of the month.  Out of the 2173 coins, 418 were keepers, including 35 of the Lincolns, 16 of the Thai coins, 34 of the Philippines and 14 of the PNG. That puts an "average price per keeper" at around 24¢ each. Latman: I will be putting some of the duplicates into the next auction at my coin club. Once that's over, I'll see what I can do for you. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1040 Posts |
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Replies: 8 / Views: 6,591 |
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Posted 07/06/2009 12:15 pm
