Very "Interesting" 1860 Mexican 2 Reales (Swamperbob)

jfransch- well, actually I am quite positive that this one is fake. The lettering is crude; the detail in the Eagle is odd and uneven; and the star, the mint mark, and the S's are very poorly shaped. IN fact each S is more of a blob than the letter. On top of it all, there is no edging of any sort and it is made of nickel (I suspect) rather than silver

My question is if anyone knows of a way of determining if this is a recent or a contemporary counterfeit.

zakota - No, they are part of the legend on the obverse. They are right above the dots after the "D" and the "G."

hmmm, the very fact that they cannot be found seems indicative of just how poorly formed they are on this copy.

swamperbob- thanks for the response. I must admit that I am a bit surprised since this coin just struck me as looking so "odd." But I guess that the production methods you detailed would account for some of the variation. But what about the actual roughness of the letters? Some seem so distorted, such as the S's, and some seem malformed, such as the "E" in "REPUBLICA." The top of it seems thin and wavy, yet the bottom bar seems blunt and bold.
As for the weight and edge of the coin, according to my Krause, the weight is supposed to be .1962 ounces. It is in fact that (but wouldn't a nickel coin of about the same size and thickness be about the same weight as a silver?) The edge is the most problematic part of the entire coin. About 80% of the edge is totally blank. Once again, According to my Krause, this coin should have a "reeded edge," which I presume is somewhat of the same ilk as the edges on my cap & ray 8Rs. The 20% or so that has an edge design appears to be a "circle pattern" not dissimilar to the circle component of the "circle and rectangle" edges of Portrait colonial 8 Reales. This edge was the smoking gun for me. (Sorry that I have not posted a pic of this edge. I truly do not have a camera capable of capturing such fine detail.)

chequer- Well, I tried that test. And my coin did not prove magnetic, but at the same time, nor did any of my US nickels. Of what percentage of nickel must a coin be in order to actually stick to a magnet? It is possible that this coin may be billon or some other odd mixture of metals since it does not really sound of silver.

jfransch- yes, I agree that the S's are in the proper place. My suspicion was based upon the fact that they look so malformed.In fact, in hand it is hard to see that they are S's and not ovals.
I think that it is most likely a contemporary counterfeit. I actually do have another counterfeit from the same period, though the other was made of copper and had sliver paint applied.
Awhile back I posted a topic about it as well. Here is the link:
https://goccf.com/t/36861

chequer Nickel is definitely magnetic - however, a US "Nickel" is made of a copper-nickel alloy as as implied in the name the primary component is Copper - 75% copper and 25% nickel. The alloy is NOT magnetic.

Archraz Regarding the density - nickel has a specific gravity of 8.9 and coin silver an SG of 10.3. That means one cubic centimeter of nickel weighs 8.9 grams while one cc of silver weighs 10.3 grams. So if the coin is the correct size it should weigh less about 5.84 grams for nickel instead of 6.76 grams for silver. That is the point of determining SG.

The letters still look OK to me. On a die it is fairly normal for the outer portion of letters to erode away first. That could account for what you are seeing. The roughness at the edges would bother me on an MS coin but once worn post strike damage can do that. It needs to be examined closely. Remember this is a 2R they are small.

The edge is a BIG problem if it is blank. But you indicate part of an edge design shows. The description seems wrong however. One of the problems with the 2 R series is the edge design it is often less than perfect. The mechanism for edging smaller coins gets much harder to control. The 2Rs often have partial edges made with the sides of the edge dies. But with no pictures it is difficult to say what it is.

Final comment - the coin is not expensive but a modern strike in nickel using transfer dies could be made for less than 50 cents each. The forger would stand to make a decent profit even if the coin sold for bullion ($1.76 for silver @ $9). If this coin is a forgery it is NOT likely to be a Contemporary Copy. A modern bullion forgery or a simple numismatic forgery would be far more likely.

The earlier 2R counterfeit you cited is a contemporary counterfeit. It is made using a transfer technology but the material used is what would have been used while the 2R still circulated in the late Republican era. Contemporary Circulating Counterfeits in nickel are essentially unknown. GS counterfeits are seen in the 1840s up to about 1870. Later than that GS disappears. Pot metal and silver plated copper take over until the early 1900s.