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A Counterfeit Counterstamp

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Pillar of the Community
swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2006  1:24 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
The follwoing auction presents what appears to be a counterstamped coin from the Philippines. In the 1830s (up to 1837) foreign coins circulating in the Philippines were counterstamped with a YII punch which stands for Isabella II. Originals are worth more than the host coin. But none were made after 1837. So here is a real 1870 Mexican coin with a crude version of the punch.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1870-MEXICO-8R-...mZ8411727767

There are many different forged copies of this punch. So be cautious.
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2006  2:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just checked the sellers other auctions which includes 21 different coins. Current bids add up to just over $2,300. I don't believe that any of these coins are real but I can't actually prove it except for the one I posted. Several coins have hit the three hundred dollar mark.

Too bad for the bidders. None of these is worth more than $20.
New Member
United States
20 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2006  5:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rick to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

20 bucks? Shoot, I got a handful of these type counterfeits from my early days of collecting - little reminder of why we don't buy the coin before the book - I would do a happy dance to be rid of them for a quarter of that
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2006  08:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rick if you have any copies of the 1809 Bust Half I would love to own one. That fake is extremely well executed.

Also has anyone checked the price of the counterstamp recently it is over $100. No response from my letters.

Valued Member
Abyss's Avatar
Canada
309 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2006  11:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Abyss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
swamperbob,

I always read your threads about counterfeits and I ask myself two things :

1-How long did it take you to get this excellent knowledge you have about them ?

2-Most importantly,how come people can be so ignorant as to get into this side of coin collecting with little ( or no knowledge) and throw away money like this ? It's beyond me.Personally I would think months ( if not years) of reading and education are required before even considering getting into this side of collecting.

I enjoy a lot your posts,thank you for sharing your knowledge.
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2006  8:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Abyss - On your first point - I have been at this a long time, about 49 years now. I started collecting coins rather seriously when I was first sick as a 10 year old. I had started accumulating old coins from change in 2nd or 3rd grade, but I didn't really buy anything and I didn't even own a book on coins until I was 10. My uncle who was a coin dealer (and my God Father) thought it would be good hobby for me since I had to be still a lot. He got my mother to get me a Blue Book (cheaper than the Red Book). I liked reading. So I studied coins. I think it took me about two weeks to realize that Red Book was better than Blue. But I added at least one book a month.

A good friend's grandfather ran a group of very successful ice cream stands in our town and on Saturday mornings my friend and I would sort through a couple thousand dollars worth of small change. The only requirement was that I had to replace anything I took coin for coin. So I had to be very selective on what I bought (at face value).

One of my earliest aquisitions from the store receipts was the 1944 no P counterfeit nickel mentioned in the Red Book footnote. I read up on that which led me to other books on forgery.

That was 1960 and it got me started on counterfeit coins. My uncle had a lot of contacts in the business and I met many older coin dealers. A couple were friends of actual counterfeiters and I got quite a bit of "heresay" information about the operations in New England.

At different times since then I have been involved in various parts of the business mostly as a hobby or vest pocket dealer but I always gravitate back to the forgeries. They fascinate me.

On your second point - you are DEAD ON. It makes no sense at all. But like P.T Barnum said or didn't say "There's a sucker born every minute".
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scoutjim99's Avatar
United States
4589 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2006  10:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scoutjim99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Swamperbob are you considering writing your own forgeries and counterfits book or even take on the expert role for the goverment on contract
Valued Member
Abyss's Avatar
Canada
309 Posts
 Posted 05/02/2006  1:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Abyss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
swamperbob,

Very interesting story.I've enjoyed it.As scoutjim said,maybe you can put your skills to some very good use to try to help people.If I ever consider looking into buying something I have no clue about can I bother you ?
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 05/02/2006  6:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To Abyss and Jim - I am considering when to finally write my book. It has been a lifelong goal. I really want to update Riddell's book "Monograph of the Silver Dollar" - especially as it relates to the Mexican 8R counterfeits that circulated in the United States. I know a few people who have published books on their numismatic interests and I have been warned not to publish until I am personally ready to give up collecting. That is still a while off and as technology improves I am considering newer forms of publication.

To Abyss and anyone else - if you run into a problem with a coin just ask. I may know or I may not but I will definitely try.
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