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17th(?) Century Chinese Cash Coin

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 Posted 01/26/2010  11:41 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I just got this from a junk box today. While it certainly is the smallest cash coin I have ever seen, I am not certain as to the type. The reverse has the normal Q'ing marks, so it certainly is not older than the 17th century. So does anyone know which type of cash coin this is? Thanks!



17th?-Century-Chinese-Cash-Coin

17th?-Century-Chinese-Cash-Coin
Edited by Archraz
01/27/2010 12:50 am
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Sap's Avatar
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16847 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2010  03:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most of the really tiny cash coins I've encountered have been "trade copies", often from Vietnam. These were made unofficially when the supply of government-issued cash coins dried up, so they can be considered either "fakes" or "emergency money" akin to notgeld, depending on your point of view.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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 Posted 01/27/2010  2:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sap- Thanks! Is there any way of determining the date of fakes/emergency coins of this sort? Also, while I know that a lot of Chinese cash coins circulated in Vietnam (and was the basis of their own cash), why is it that they would have copied a Chinese design rather than make provisional currency similar to what what being produced in Vietnam? Finally, though I did pull this from a 25 cent bin, do you think that this coin has any value?
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 Posted 01/27/2010  8:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DCH to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like Jia Qing tong bao.

Post the reverse, several mints issued coins of this size.

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Archraz's Avatar
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 Posted 01/27/2010  8:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think that this is just the normal, Q'ing Dynasty Hu-Pu Revenue Board Reverse.




17th?-Century-Chinese-Cash-Coin
Edited by Archraz
01/27/2010 8:55 pm
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 Posted 01/27/2010  9:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DCH to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like Yunnan mint to me.

Sap is probably correct calling this a fake, but
a broad rimmed coin with extreme wear is not impossible.
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 Posted 01/27/2010  9:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
DCH & Sap - But would this not be a kind of contemporary fake used due to a lack of official currency in circulation (much like American Colonial Coins)? If so, is this coin totally worthless or has it some possible value? Also, do either of you know what the possible date of this coin could be?
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 Posted 01/27/2010  9:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DCH to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If real, this type was made from 1797-1818, and in VF+ condition would be valued at $1-$2.
Unless it's a known counterfeit, and listed in some catalog, I doubt it would be worth more than an original.
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 Posted 01/27/2010  9:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's not "worthless" - it's just not worth much. Because we have no idea when, where or why it might have been made, and the chances of ever knowing much more about it are slim. Maybe if you ran it through an XRF analyser and did a comparative trace metal analysis, you could find out where the copper came from, but for now all we can say for sure about it is that it was made sometime after 1796, and most likely either in Yunnan or somewhere where Yunnan coins were common. Since Vietnam is just south of Yunnan, my original assumption is still likely. It may even be a piece of relatively modern "funeral money", with the "ageing" caused by fire damage, though it doesn't really look like fire damage, from your pics.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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 Posted 01/27/2010  10:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
DCH & Sap- Very interesting stuff! Thanks for all of your help & info!
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