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How Can Grades Differ?

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benchede's Avatar
United States
112 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2010  1:14 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add benchede to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Being a new collecter my question may be "silly", but I need to know;
I purchased a UHR $20 gold piece from the mint back in 2009. The coin is beautiful as you all know,and a pure enjoyment to own. My question is, being a member with NGC, there coin values for this coin differ from MS67 up to MSPL70. How can this be when this coin was only minted one way, "uncirculated, business strikes",? Am I missing something here or were all these coins handled differently?
I'm confused but want to learn all I can. Can anyone straighen me out?
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2010  1:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At the high end of the uncirculated grades, any small flaw will affect the grade. Just because all coins are minted the same way, that does not mean each one was caught on a goose down pillow coming out of the press and then handled with soft cotton gloves before being placed in a coin capsule. Minting coins is a mechanical process, lots of moving metal parts and hard surfaces abound. Also, keep in mind that 24kt gold is extremely soft, you could bite that coin with your teeth and leave a mark

Collector coins like the UHR and proofs are handled with care at the Mint and certainly handled more carefully than business strikes(dropped on a metal chute into huge Kevlar bags holding several hundred thousand coins and then moved around by forklift) but tiny flaws are bound to occur and perfection, i.e. MS-70 and PR-70, is the exception, not the rule.
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Moe145's Avatar
United States
8904 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2010  6:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Moe145 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not an expert but obviously the ones minted first with fresh dies are much more detailed and sharp. (Maybe not so much with the soft gold... but you get my drift.)
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925dealer's Avatar
United States
258 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2010  7:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 925dealer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's all about condition, condition, condition.

MS67 should be "common"
MS68 fewer examples but still a lot of them.
MS69 Fewer examples still but still a lot of them.
MS70 Very Rare but a few out there.
MSPL70 Mint State Prooflike 70. So rare it commands the big dollars.

Sincerely, John Leckrone
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Wornslick's Avatar
United States
1304 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2010  8:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wornslick to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
and a UHR is.......?

Thanks,

Wornslick
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2010  8:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
'm not an expert but obviously the ones minted first with fresh dies are much more detailed and sharp. (Maybe not so much with the soft gold... but you get my drift.)

Although strike does have a play in super high graded coins, it should have no effect on other grades what so ever. What makes a 70 over a 69 could be just opinion and what makes a 68 instead of 69 could be a small scratch or any type of imperfection in the coin. A 69 and 70 is very hard to differentiate on most coins to collectors and I think all of the hype is just TPG made for the 70's. I see no reason to pay the premium for a 70 over a 69 unless you are working on a registry set which is another place in this hobby where the TPG has made a fortune from their opinions

Quote:
How can this be when this coin was only minted one way, "uncirculated, business strikes",? Am I missing something here or were all these coins handled differently?

How the coin is handled after the minting process is probably the most important part on most modern coins because as I said above one small mark can make a coin drop 2 grades or more according to where it is at
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2010  9:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
and a UHR is.......?

2009 Ultra High Relief Saint-Gaudens
http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/ultrahigh/
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aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2010  9:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with today's grading, Bryan's comments are very true, today's grading's seem to weed out the higher grades by any slight little mark or abnormality. Years ago when the UNC, BU and GEM BU grading was in effect its was easier to distinguish between mid grade MS examples like MS 61,61 and MS63. todays grading can easily let a coin that used to fall(IE Morgan's) in those categories might slip into the AU bracket..
The one thing IMHO is the TPG's have already graded many coins in the past in which few remain in the top MS positions, as a result many owners have paid dearly for these coins and there bragging registry rights..and the values established for the top grades is tremendous.... and for the grading to slack up would seriously risk the monetary value they(TPG'S) supposedly back up....to take raw coin and get it to the top would be most difficult, unless your the big spender, they seem to be able to breech the gap where the normal guy can't..In the end it is an opinion.....of what the accepted grade will be......is it yours or mine or a friends?
this is the reason for TPG's...a non bias opinion for an acceptable grade...so people will accept the monetary value of graded coins.....IS there Bias? well in every opinion there is......Bias and politics......its like living and breathing you cant have one without the other..
even between the top 3 TPG's you can't get the same money for the same grade..
TPG's are like the judges needed in the old days, a referee between the 2 parties......the OPINION, (term still used today)
was meant to be accepted by the 2 parties....as noted by Bryan...
its there opinion and there going to the bank.....
there will always be opinions any time two or more look at the same thing or picture....with time and experience it does get easier to understand a resonable idea of what a coins grade will be.....

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Wornslick's Avatar
United States
1304 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2010  06:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wornslick to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very Nice Coin. Thanks Bio,

Wornslick
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