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Question About Bank Of England Dollars (Updated, With Pics)

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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16836 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2006  07:50 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
OK, dollar experts, what's the edge on a Bank of England 1804 dollar supposed to be?

A local dealer had one for sale, and it looked OK. You could even read a lot of the undertype Spanish dollar.

But the edge was completely smooth, with only what looked like an occasional trace of the square-and-circle edging from the original Spanish dollar visible.

Does anybody know what kind of edge they are supposed to have? I have difficulty believing the Bank of England didn't go to a little more trouble and put some kind of milling or security edge on their dollars, but I don't actually know (none of my references give details about the edge). Is "plain edge" normal, or a red flag for a likely fake?
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Edited by Sap
07/11/2006 06:40 am
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Australia
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 Posted 07/11/2006  06:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I went and bought it anyway. It was too good a chance to pass up, and the dealer did say if it turned out to be fake, he'd refund the money.

Here are the pics. Reverse:
Question-About-Bank-Of-England-Dollars-Updated,-With-Pics

Obverse:
Question-About-Bank-Of-England-Dollars-Updated,-With-Pics

The Edge:
Question-About-Bank-Of-England-Dollars-Updated,-With-Pics

And finally a size comparison with a genuine (as far as I know) Spanish dollar. The BoE dollar is 41mm across, a good 3˝mm larger than the the Spanish at 38˝mm; the weights for the two coins are similar (the BoE is slightly heavier than the Spanish).
Question-About-Bank-Of-England-Dollars-Updated,-With-Pics

I've asked a local coin club member who has one, if I can compare mine with theirs. I'll keep you posted...
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Kuwait
1523 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2006  06:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thekidcollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow!

Thats one purty coin!

I'll have a look through.

TKC!
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thekidcollector's Avatar
Kuwait
1523 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2006  08:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thekidcollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is there a weak strike at 4:00 writing and further down at 4:00 theres scratches?
What is that looks like staple markes.

How much did you pay for that thing

It still looks lovely.
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 Posted 07/11/2006  10:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is a weak strike, on obverse 4 o'clock, reverse 8 o'clock. The coin is actually thinner here, and the remnant of the design of the undertype spanish dollar shows through in those places (these coins were originally overstruck on Spanish dollars). After the REX on the obverse, you can clearly see the IIII from the Spanish CAROLUS IIII (some bits of CAROLUS also come through), and on the reverse HISPAN ET IN is readable under BANK OF, with the H easily seen between BANK and 1804. Finally, the tip of one of the pillars is seen to the left of the D in DOLLAR.

The thing that looks like a wobbly die crack through and after the date 1804 is actually the remnant of the top of the Spanish crown. Unfortunately, the Spanish coin's original date is underneath the DEI, where the strike is stongest - not a trace left of it. Likewise the Spanish mintmarks. But, there's enough there to confirm it was a Spanish-American 8 reales of the period 1791-1808.

The damage in the field just below the king's chin looks to me to be too "regular" for a natural explanation (bag marks, staples etc). I think some contemporary coin vandal had a go at practicing their coin etching there - or they were drilling test spots to see if it was real silver underneath.

On the positive side, my club-member friend has checked his specimen, and it compares well with mine - weight, edge, diameter all match his genuine one, and he also has a couple of contemporary counterfeits which aren't anywhere near as convincing. The fact you can make out details on the underlying Spanish coin added to the coin's pedigree.

The main query I have now about mine is the "sound" - it doesn't "ring" like a dollar-sized silver coin ought to, it's more a "clank" sound. It could be a result of the uneven thickness, it could be an invisible crack or planchet flaw... or it could be a very convincing modern fake. There are also some intriguing raised spots in the field around "Brittania's" head. But all in all I'm more inclined to believe it's genuine after that report.

I paid AU$350 for it. The dealer said he'd have asked more, if there weren't the query about authenticity.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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