Counterfeit 8R In Low Tier TPG Slab On Ebay

This particular forgery (which is very common and is sometimes found in very high grades) is rarely seen heavily worn or cancelled like typical period forgeries. There are a few, but there seem to be too few, if you understand what I mean. Based on a population analysis I suspect they are recent not contemporary.

For that reason, and a couple others I will go over, I classify it as a very late bullion or early modern numismatic copy. If I had to guess I would date production to the period after WWII (possibly until present). I have seen these for many years and a few have developed a deep toning, so I believe they have been in production for a number of years.

Initially, I thought they were very modern (crude) numismatic copies because the first few I encountered were essentially mint state. A rare date or scarce type coin is not usually encountered as a period forgery. Counterfeiters copied the most common dates and mints to blend in. The 1846 Chihuahua is a one die coin - a scarce to rare coin. So forgery in the early days of Mexican coin popularity became a good possibility. This would push production into the mid 1960s. However, over a short period of time after I first encountered the type, I encountered worn copies and a couple that were drilled in a manner similar to an old cancellation. Most modern numismatic forgeries are not drilled by the counterfeiters, but bullion coins sometimes are. A bullion forgery from WWII or Vietnam eras is a possibility.

I have not encountered a Sheffield Plate version or a debased silver copy of this particular forgery so that forces it to be a post Civil War era production. Most copies of this coin are German Silver a technology dating to the 1840s. The style is all wrong for the period when these were used as world bullion (1870-1930) - too crude and by that time transfer dies were used almost exclusively.

The foregoing analysis is why I have classed this as a WWII era or later bullion forgery or early modern numismatic forgery.

Because of the large number available and small demand in general for counterfeits of any age these copies are NOT very valuable.

It is called a bullion forgery because the mark thinks he is getting a silver bullion coin for a few cents on the dollar. It is NOT made with silver. The fraud is selling nickel or steel for far more than it is worth. In Africa the target coin during WWII was the Maria Theresa Thaler.

These should not be confused with the Full Weight Silver Bullion forgeries made between 1870 and 1933 which derived their value from the differential between world silver price and merchant buy price in China.

A most recent scam began at about the time of WWII (at least that is when it was first commonly reported). Servicemen traveling in the Pacific especially bought thousands of knock off silver dollars for 10 cents each thinking they were getting a deal. In North Africa it was the MTT or ancient coins.

The same scam was also repeated during the Vietnam era (big time) and it persists until today.

It works very simply. A forger makes cheap imitation silver coins (usually but not always) the size of a dollar in huge numbers. They cost a couple cents or less in bulk. They are sold to wholesalers who distribute them to local networks of individuals who are the point of sales operatives. These operatives (passers) are kids, old men or vulnerable looking old women. These passers have a sob story and sell the coins for whatever they can get above cost. The split with the wholesaler varies, but the kid can make a better living selling fake coins than he could otherwise.

I have actually watched this scam in action while on vacation in Honduras. The forgery there consisted of Pre-Columbian artifacts and bogus Spanish Colonial cob coins. I saw a cute but dirty 5 or 6 year old looking kid approaching other passengers on our tour. I could see he had coins in his hand. So I just watched him from a distance (I sat in a cafe across the street for about an hour). He had a bag of coins he kept hidden by the edge of the road. He would hold only one or two coins in his outstretched hand and in broken English with the most pitiful look on his face he would say to an older passerby (aka sucker) "Look what I have". He varied the words only slightly but if asked he "didn't know what the coins were". He found them buried. The average person I saw gave him at least a $1 US but I saw several give him more. Most didn't even take the coin (I guess because he looked so pitiful). But while I watched he took in over $100. In fact, at one point a stall dealer needed change to make a sale and she approached the kid with a $100 bill. He made change for her. I stayed long enough to see his handler (a teenager) come up and take a wad of cash from him. It was a roll at least 3 or 4 inches in diameter. Then I watched the handler as he made the rounds and picked up money from 2 other small kids. He had one kid on each road leading out of the market square. I didn't want to follow him too far but I did see him meet up with a man in his 30s carrying a worn briefcase. The older fellow must have been the distributor.

In another version, street vendors have the coins in stalls usually in open dishes. They start at $10 routinely but drop the prices to $1 in most cases. The story is always the same. The coins were FOUND or DUG UP or ____? They NEVER KNOW what they are but let the gullibility and GREED of the buyer will take over. The service man or traveler - (AKA the mark) - does not look to well but thinks "Wow a dollar silver coin or an old Pirate coin for a few cents". He doesn't realize he has been taken by a con-man (is there a con-kid?) until he gets home.

The same scan happens all the time on ebay today.

In general, if a forgery is known to be for sale in the vendors stalls in Hong Kong, China or Indonesia - it is referred to as a "Tourist Forgery" or "Bullion Forgery".

I can't be 100% sure in this particular case that the 1846 is a Bullion forgery or whether it is an early crude Numismatic forgery. But either way, they sell only to people who HAVE NOT DONE THEIR HOMEWORK.

This is one case, where ebay's policy is right on - let the buyer beware.

I can also point to Aaron Feldman's famous adage, which is my favorite quote "Buy the Book BEFORE the Coin." That is still as true today as when Aaron said it in the 1950s.

As always a very interesting informative read.

I am new to collecting 8 Reales and am trying to do as much homework as possible. I will be purchasing a book or two for reading on the subject.

This may be obvious advice however, I would not purchase an 8 Reale on ebay unless you know the seller for certain is someone you can trust to sell you an authentic coin.

I have purchased a few on ebay only to return them.