A Fight For A Counterfeit - Coin Community Forum

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Author	Replies: 6 / Views: 2,532
swamperbob Pillar of the Community United States 5362 Posts	Posted 06/25/2010 08:15 am Whenever I spot a counterfeit Cap and Ray coin on ebay - I put it on my watch list even if I have no intention of bidding on it. I track sales and the final prices. Sometimes when I watch a counterfeit on ebay - bidding goes CRAZY. Most common Contemporaneous Circulating Counterfeits are worth under $35. But at times, bidders (I presume novice bidders) fight and spend far too much for a coin that if they simply waited would show up again. Here is an example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...110548761914 This is a fantasy counterfeit. It is part of a family of related dies that used 3 eagles and 2 caps to create a series of coins that did circulate extensively. Of the combinations I have encountered this particular die pair is the MOST COMMON variety. I own 12 copies of this die pair struck in various metals. This pair has appeared on ebay about 2 to 3 times a year for the past 10 years. There is a scarce Modified version of this Eagle (I own the only copy I have ever seen of the modified die) - but this is NOT IT. Before ebay concealed identities, I could write to the bidders and ask them about their collection of counterfeits. If they indicated they didn't collect counterfeits, I could follow-up with a description of the counterfeit they were bidding on. If they responded affirmatively I added their name to my data base of counterfeit collectors. I have met several eBayer's who have become friends in this way. Since this is a completely legal counterfeit to own and sell, the only problem is that the seller didn't warn the bidders about what it was. But if a bidder just looks in any reference they would discover there was never a D mint mark in Mexico. Durango was Do not D. In addition all 1833 Durango issues used very distinctive French dies. The eagle on this coin looks far more like a Guanajuato bird. So in my opinion, this is a perfect case for ebay's caution "let the buyer beware". Here are pictures - the ebay coin at the top and directly under it a high grade copy I bought in 2009 for $30. Edited by swamperbob 06/25/2010 09:08 am Report this Post to the Staff

swamperbob Pillar of the Community United States 5362 Posts	Posted 06/25/2010 10:38 am Got a reply from the seller - he says he is going to cancel. I suggested he write to the bidders first to see if any of them were bidding on it as a counterfeit. I estimate the value at $25 not the $102.50 that is currently bid at - ( Time left: 3h 54m 8s (Jun 25, 201011:31:17 PDT). However, other counterfeit collectors may see it as more valuable than I do. Report this Post to the Staff
xshift Pillar of the Community United States 2669 Posts	Posted 06/25/2010 11:18 am Are there a lot of counterfeit collectors, swamperbob? Nice that the seller is willing to cancel.. and great suggestion on asking the bidders about what they thought they were bidding on. Can sellers see more than the high bidder's user id? That's not something I ever tried when I used to sell, as far as I can recall. Report this Post to the Staff
swamperbob Pillar of the Community United States 5362 Posts	Posted 06/25/2010 1:37 pm I know ebay used to provide a complete list of bidder identities to sellers so that you could eliminate people you do not want to do business with. You ask how many counterfeit collectors there are? Tough to answer because there are some who are very secretive about it. I know two dealers who refuse to disclose they collect counterfeits at all even when questioned about it. But before ebay stopped disclosing IDs I had a list of about 350 different bidder identities who placed bids on identified counterfeits. I suspect that there are fewer serious collectors but I know of at least a dozen who have collections larger than mine. Report this Post to the Staff
swamperbob Pillar of the Community United States 5362 Posts	Posted 06/25/2010 2:30 pm I just heard from the seller that he could not stop the auction because ebay prevented it from being ended within 12 hours of the scheduled end time. So he went one step further and called ebay directly. He got to someone who agreed to "bend" the rules and stop the auction because it involved a counterfeit. No word yet on who did and didn't know about what it was. If none of the bidders knew - the seller has agreed to sell it to me at my standing offer of $25. Report this Post to the Staff
twincam_04 Valued Member United States 420 Posts	Posted 06/25/2010 2:32 pm it looks like it was cancelled great job swamperbob ! Report this Post to the Staff
swamperbob Pillar of the Community United States 5362 Posts	Posted 06/26/2010 09:15 am Yes it was canceled by ebay because the seller turned himself in for posting a counterfeit. Report this Post to the Staff
	Replies: 6 / Views: 2,532

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