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Machine Doubled State Park Quarter? Hub Doubled?

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Valued Member
legend's Avatar
United States
182 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2010  6:35 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add legend to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
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Machine-Doubled-State-Park-Quarter?-Hub-Doubled?

Is this a machine double? Hub double?
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Edited by legend
07/25/2010 6:36 pm
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aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2010  7:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
generally the hub doubling will be higher on the existing letters. There will be a separations a notch if you will between the two, like yours shows. but Machine Doubling will leave a flat ledgelike appearance like your photo's..
Valued Member
legend's Avatar
United States
182 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2010  07:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add legend to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the input! If the letter is higher in machine doubles, then on incuse would it then be reversed, and lower, as the height of the design is actually conversely revealed by the counter depth of the strike. That would make the Machine Doubling appear to be on the surface of the coin, closest to the fields. Trying to figure out what this shows, so thanks!
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coppercoins's Avatar
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7629 Posts
 Posted 07/27/2010  12:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Umm, yeah...it's Machine Doubling.
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legend's Avatar
United States
182 Posts
 Posted 07/27/2010  10:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add legend to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you mr Daughtry! I was itchin to see if it was the real deal. I sent some to Billy, and I expect to hear from him the next two weeks. I am sending a few to ANACS tomorrow. I hope against hope sometime, and this looks like a done deal with you weighing in. Thanks again for the input, I will post pics of my graded machine doubles. Ouch. Bubbles are so fragile, LOL. Sorry all if this is a lark, but we all get our hopes up looking for the next best thing.
According to the expert, it is now time to sell your boxes and move on to Yosemite. Pop.
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Indian1's Avatar
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3640 Posts
 Posted 07/27/2010  11:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Indian1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
?
Legend, I read your last reply and am confused.
I'm probably going senile but are you just funnin ?
Valued Member
legend's Avatar
United States
182 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2010  08:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add legend to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Um, we all have heard the phrase "eating humble pie", (mostly all I think). There I was recommending to folks buy this issue, and I find out from a serious attributer that my recommendation was off the mark. So I was trying to put a good face on the idea of eating that humble pie as I typed. I do think, though, that I will wait till the entire hobby, PCGS, ANACS, and others, have seen the coins before I sell my sets. Personally, if I had a trade reputation riding on my comments, I maybe would want to see some examples of the items before I made a call. Dismissing a potential variety or error "out of hand" would not be how I would weigh in, but with Mr Daughtry's status in the hobby he does have that credibility as a reserve when he makes a call. I want to look into the horse's mouth before I purchase it. So I spread the accolade thick for Mr Daughtry, due to steep hobby esteem needs recognition, but alternatively still await my reply from Billy and others. I still have my sets.
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coppercoins's Avatar
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7629 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2010  10:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Next time try to save yourself the grief (and money) by asking on a forum (for free) first before submitting said coins to grading services with a check. I do not mean to berate you in any way with this statement, but the photo you submit in this thread is of obvious and very classic Machine Doubling, which is very common and holds no premium value to collectors.

As for the thick accolades, I appreciate your statement, but am of the opinion that I only know as much as anyone else willing to put some time and effort into studying the coins with an objective mind and a little education in the behavior of minting machinery. It really does not require anything more than that.
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legend's Avatar
United States
182 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2010  10:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add legend to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was going to ask to send some to folks, but I am too new to do transactional business. ANYONE who wants to see a copy of this coin ask admin. I will send up to ten copies to admin if they want to send them out. As for your ability to attribute, you don't even know how good you are at it. I have seen your VDB Collage, and your numerous drawings. Both of your brain lobes are fully involved, whereas muggles like me have to ask kindly of the other lobe of our brain so we can develop skills like guitar, piano, art, and yes, coin attribution.
I liken you to Ansel Adams, Picasso, and our earliest coin engravers, like St Gaudens. You deserve to design, sculpt, and execute dies. You are underemployed in this respect. Maybe the mint could use your design elements in later issues. I think so.
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2010  10:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Actually with this particular issue there is no real point to sending them out to anyone. Your image is of high enough quality for anyone in the least skilled at determining Machine Doubling to tell you with certainty that is what you have. In the future, however, if you should run across something that you cannot determine on your own and want help, post a picture here. If the folks here cannot figure out exactly what they are looking at, many will provide information to you through email if you want to ship the coins out for a sight-seen inspection. I am currently too busy to continue devoting time to hands-on attribution, but may re-enter that part of my business some time before the end of the year.
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legend's Avatar
United States
182 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2010  11:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add legend to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you. Good to know you are back into attributions soon. The hobby is enriched for it.
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legend's Avatar
United States
182 Posts
 Posted 07/29/2010  4:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add legend to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Billy Crawford has replied, and says with incuse lettering detail can look like hub doubling, but is not. It is Machine Doubling, as stated by Daughtry as well. The Smokestack lincoln was deep die damage, but both the types of these oddities will be shown in DVN at some point, as he took pics. I am nearly famous. LOL. Thanks for reading. At least I have early boxes if other discrepencies are found among them. Regards, your neophyte member, Leg End.
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legend's Avatar
United States
182 Posts
 Posted 08/03/2010  7:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add legend to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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Machine-Doubled-State-Park-Quarter?-Hub-Doubled?
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legend's Avatar
United States
182 Posts
 Posted 08/03/2010  7:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add legend to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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Machine-Doubled-State-Park-Quarter?-Hub-Doubled?
Valued Member
legend's Avatar
United States
182 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2010  10:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add legend to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Beating a dead horse. Well, I found a Yosemite quarter with the same effect on it, except the extra Y bisected the original design detail So, if it is a second letter, is it still machine doubled? I looked through ALL of the machine doubles all over the internet. Koinpro, Stanton. and the volumes of others. I took the test of ten examples, and called all the doubled dies correctly. So, then....if this is an example of Machine Doubling, tell me on which page of which guide on the internet the best example of an item nearly approximating the Hot Springs, Yellowstone, and now Yosemite examples I have posted appear. I truly want to see the closest approximation, so I can put it in my mind's eye recognition folder. I must say, I am a doubting thomas until I see it with my own two eyes, and clearly, beyond someone simply stating "um, yeah" and then recommending that I keep the examples to myself for posterity. My rule in life is "don't believe anything you hear-words can mislead you. And only believe half of what you see- as your eyes can trick you as well". Just send me to an internet example pic, just one, which illustrates how and why these are machine doubles.
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legend's Avatar
United States
182 Posts
 Posted 08/07/2010  10:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add legend to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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Machine-Doubled-State-Park-Quarter?-Hub-Doubled?

Machine-Doubled-State-Park-Quarter?-Hub-Doubled?


Well, this is why I was so reluctant to view this error as machine doubled. I have seen so many of the letters out of position, larger, smaller, and cantered with respect to one another that I was skeptical. Made me switch from 10X to 15X and back again many times. This one, emblematic of all of them, shows the top of a Y, clearly out of position, resisting the notion of Machine Doubling as well. Looks almost like a dropped letter to me, but then that makes some of the others potential dropped letters to me as well. Hard to describe seeing so many. Hope there is a category other than Machine Doubling that this fits into. Just dizzying to look at so many of the same quarters tonight. And thanks in advance for your inputs, hoping you will excuse a newby for being a little too tenacious. Just wanna know.
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