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My Latest Fantasy Counterfeit 8R

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swamperbob's Avatar
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5362 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2010  11:37 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Tonight I won a beautiful example of a "Barbaric" forgery. This is one of my favorite subcategories of forgeries. The name was used first (to my knowledge) by Calbetto when he categorized the "other" 8R varieties. He attributed them to rural populations composed of Indians or others who could not read and he dubbed them Barbaric or Unskilled Copies.

The counterfeits in this group are often called Fantasy Counterfeits to distinguish them from the more mundane forgeries which look more or less like the original issues, but that is an incorrect term.

To me a fantasy includes any number of coins that were NEVER actually made by any country - but which might have been. The group includes coins with dates for which coins were never issued. Or mint marks using letters that never were used. Fantasy coins usually appear to resemble known types and denominations but there is a major deviation from the real thing. For example a Crown dated 1936 with King Edward VIII's portrait claiming to be from New Zealand would be a Fantasy coin. It is a coin that never existed. Fantasy issues can become forgeries by placing them in circulation or they may be souvenirs. That is a use they are put to not a description of what they are.

A Barbaric counterfeit on the other hand refers to a CRUDE copy of a real circulating coin. The word Barbaric connotes UNSKILLED even childish designs and lettering.

In any event, here is a coin I call a Barbaric Counterfeit. It is the second example of this die pair I have encountered. I was particularly interested in this copy because the feathering of the eagle is completely visible - something which is lacking on the other example.

The coin was test cut - I presume to see if it was worth melting, because NO WAY can I envision needing to cut into this coin to disclose the fraud.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...310240189054

Here is the coin itself just in case ebay decides to cancel another completed auction.



My-Latest-Fantasy-Counterfeit-8R
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jfransch's Avatar
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1801 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2010  11:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jfransch to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What a great find! (And a high demand coin for people trying to fill in that spot for a cap and ray from the ultra-rare "SPAN" mint, still trying to find the section on that elusive 15th mint in the Dunigan book...LOL) I grab these barbaric counterfeits whenever I can find a Pillar or Portrait version, I find them absolutely amazing and really enjoy the ones where letters are engraved backwards.
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Greece
425 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2010  2:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add epop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To continue this topic I will post a bad pillar dollar copy.I bought it few years ago on ebay.I was new then and everything cheap seems a bargain to me.But although I has no knowledge on counterfeits and pillar dollars I immediately understand that I got fooled.But I keep it because L learn my lesson by that.
My-Latest-Fantasy-Counterfeit-8R
Edited by epop
08/18/2010 2:54 pm
Valued Member
Greece
425 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2010  2:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add epop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


My-Latest-Fantasy-Counterfeit-8R
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jfransch's Avatar
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1801 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2010  4:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jfransch to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Epop, did you buy that as a real coin? Did you stamp "COPY" on the reverse or did it come that way.
Valued Member
Greece
425 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2010  6:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add epop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I bought that without notice the word copy.That was some years ago and I was aware of counterfeits or simple replicas and copies.
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swamperbob's Avatar
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5362 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2010  7:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
epop That is quite a "miss". I don't agree with position of COPY on that coin because it is in a "busy" place and could be missed. The field in front of the King's head is a better spot.

jfransch Riddell actually added 8 mints to the list of Cap and Ray production facilities D, oD, Ds, G, Is, Ms, P and T.F..

I have added 12 more to Riddell's list the aG, BX, Cs, I, Ls, M, MRC, MX, N, NX, X and Z.

So at present count I have 34 mints.
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jfransch's Avatar
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1801 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2010  8:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jfransch to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I now have a new quest, I want a set of all 34 mints!! I can picture the display at the ANA World of Money Show in 2012 in my mind, blue ribbon right on top of the case.
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