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New Evidence! To Discuss With Swamperbob

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Valued Member

China
106 Posts
 Posted 08/30/2010  05:03 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add nicolashsing to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I found this 1770-jr potosi pillar in Heratage action archives which lot No.is 20382 and sold for $747.
To my surprise it is excatly the same as my potosi pillar in many points I marked, you can see from the pics that what the suspicious points you had marked before are surprisingly the same.
I though these two coins were stuck by the same die.What's your points?
pic1-2 my coin marked with suspicious points.
pic3-4 the coin from HA


New-Evidence!-To-Discuss-With-Swamperbob

New-Evidence!-To-Discuss-With-Swamperbob

New-Evidence!-To-Discuss-With-Swamperbob

New-Evidence!-To-Discuss-With-Swamperbob
Pillar of the Community
swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 08/30/2010  9:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would agree that the two coins appear to be manufactured from the same obverse (shield) die. The reverse dies are slightly different. The Crown sits slightly differently on the two coins note the point where the crown meets the globe on the LEFT side. The dentils on the Heritage coin are radial as they should be. The deterioration suggests that your coin was struck before the Heritage example.

That proves the two coins are from the same source but does not prove they are both original. They could just as well both be well executed forgeries. The punch sequence of the dies is still in my opinion incorrect.

Since I am evaluating pictures only it is impossible to be sure, but I know that counterfeits have gotten by all of the TPGs and auction houses at one time or another. I think SG and XRF are critical in this case.

Valued Member
China
106 Posts
 Posted 08/30/2010  11:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nicolashsing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Although the oringinal left unsure,i found it amazing to collect pillar coins,they are deserve us to research on it,that's why spanish 8r is attractive to me.
Thanks for your comments,i wanna discuss futher more with you in new issues.
Pillar of the Community
swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2010  1:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I completely agree with you that MUCH more research is needed.

Fifty years ago the Pillar dollar coins were ignored and there was no concern about forgery. But today that has changed.

Unlike US coins where methods of die manufacture are well documented - very little in the way of information exists about die making methods used by Spanish Colonial and Early Republican Governments. What I have learned has come in small increments - a clue here a hint there. But in the end I have, at least in my own mind, established how these dies were most likely crafted.

Anytime I spot a die that violates those parameters - I want absolute proof that the coin is real. I do not trust the opinions of many of the TPG experts. They have less actual time studying this variety than I do. They will encapsulate coins that I never would agree to, but conversely I could not do a good job with 99% of issues from other countries where they arre more expert than I am.

I am open to modifying my parameters on die making techniques but NOT SIMPLY BECAUSE a TPG or an Auction House pronounces a coin real. I always ask WHY!

Any time you want to address issues further just post them. I am hanging around most days.
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