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Greekcoin Import Restrictions: Or "When Governments Attack".

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Valued Member
legend's Avatar
United States
182 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2010  1:33 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add legend to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Greece is just the latest seeking to keep American collectors from acquiring their prized Numismatic examples. My grandpa had this remarkable collection of overseas coins (it was just junk, but to a kid all those different designs were neat). As a result, once in a while I pick up a handful of foreign coins on a lark. Even got euros some months back. So if Greece is successful, we may get screened out from their key foreign issues, many of which win awards for artistry. Maybe I am just excitable, but I think: Tit for Tat. If they want to go all nationalistic on us, how about we impose restrictions on them or any other government who kills access to their coins. We cannot buy theirs, then they cannot buy ours. Especially, no ASE's, which are the world's leading seller and collected all over the world. Maybe our Congress should remind them about how commerce flows two ways.
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fioti's Avatar
United States
4212 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2010  2:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fioti to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
legend, relax. Mailed 2 Greece to Greece a few days ago. As for buying, put up no flags. I think we can always enjoy and flaunt our passion, along as we don't make major purchases.
Valued Member
Greece
425 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2010  2:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add epop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Legend I can't make out what are you trying to tell about Greece.Can you please explain it better
Valued Member
legend's Avatar
United States
182 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2010  9:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add legend to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Greece wants us to stop buying their coins. Hope their economy falls into disrepair, and they have to borrow the Yuan or Ruble to finance their government. LOL. I am not panicked, just relieved to live HERE, and not close to IED's proper. Om. All You Need Is Love.... etcetera, etcetera, Peter Cetera. Must find my center....just where did I leave it?....
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16826 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2010  01:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Legend I can't make out what are you trying to tell about Greece.Can you please explain it better

(I think) it's about coins being classed as "antiquities" to be protected from unlicenced import and export.

Cyprus currently has an agreement with the US which, in 2007, was modified to define ancient coins as one of several classes of "proscribed antiquities" (see the Designated List document, pdf download from State Department website) and therefore illegal to import into the US; old coins which originally came from Cyprus that are detected crossing the border are liable to seizure by US Customs and "repatriated". A similar cultural heritage agreement already exists with Italy, but "coins" aren't on the current Designated List; they are currently lobbying to add coins to their lists of proscribed items, too.

Surprisingly, there is currently no bilateral cultural protection treaty between the US and Greece at all. It wouldn't surprise me if they were lobbying to get one written up, but I hadn't heard of any developments in this area. Greek artefacts are covered only by America's signing of the 1970 UNESCO Convention, which only mentions "coins" briefly and in general terms as a possible category for restrictions.

The restrictions don't cover modern coins (which these governments all hope that foreigners will continue to buy, to help prop up their economies). It's only the older coins these laws target. For Cyprus and Italy, the agreements both stipulate that it only affects ancient coins (4th century AD or earlier). In Greece, anything older than the founding of the Greek State in 1826 is defined as an antiquity and is property of the State.

Quote:
...Hope their economy falls into disrepair...

Too late, it already has. And they didn't take too kindly to Germany's suggestion that they sell off a few of their islands to help pay their debts, either.

In Greece, there are so many excessively duplicated antiquities (including coins) that are slowly crumbling away in underfunded museums that can't afford to take proper care of their collections. If they sold them all off, Greece could probably say goodbye to all their current financial problems. But they won't - cultural protectionism is too deeply ingrained in Greek society. They can be quite militant about it sometimes.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2010  02:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have seen a TV news article regarding coins taken out of India. It was also reported in the local numismatic magazine in Oz.

About 4 years ago, an Australian was jailed for 6 months in India for purchasing 18th Century silver Rupees (about 50 of them), and attempting to leave for Oz. with them in his personal luggage. He was a lawyer, but he alleged that he had no idea that there was any Law prohibiting the taking coins out of India.
Valued Member
Greece
425 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2010  04:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add epop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I read the old post about the Hoard of Chalkis.I think owning ancient coins must be not illegal but Laws here in Greece are different.Because of these laws, no honest people collect coins because you can find yourself in jail anytime.So thieves and smugglers dig up everywhere and sell the coins abroad.So Greek collectors collect pennies(lepta and drachma which allowed) and no masterpieces ,Greek ancient coins.
So when I go to a coin show, German English and French collectors know more about my homeland coins than I do.That's embarrassing.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2010  10:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
epop: That is embarrassing for you, and crazy for everyone else!

Modern European civilisation has as it's foundation that of Ancient Greek civilisation, of which coins are an essential and most enduring part of the records of the Ancient Greeks.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2010  08:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Other cases where they are pushing for making the export of coin illegal for "cultural Heritage" reasons include China (Nothing before 1911), Iraq (at one point it was going to be nothing before 1990 and it was to include coins from other countries found there as well. Iraq used to be an "international" crossroads with coins for all kind of countries found in that country.), Italy has been looking a pushing their cut off into the 19th century, and with Itally you have the problem that Roman coins were used over all of Europe part of Asia and Africa. If you are importing ancient Roman coins how are you going to prove that they DIDN'T come from Italy? I also have to wonder how all these customs agents who are NOT numismatists are going to be able to tell recognize all these different coins and tell which ones are OK an which are not? I'm afraid that eventually they will decide to error on the side of caution and confiscate everything until YOU can prove it is allowed.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2010  09:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Conder101: I have been collecting ancient Roman coins for 30 or so years. I have often pondered over the points that you make here.

One wonders if coins are not exportable, when the will the fakers fill the demand in the market with a vengeance?

Increasingly, if you are going to build a collection of ancients as I have, then you must keep a record of all the invoices of the coins to prove their provenance. It seems that you should only obtain ancients from well respected and long established dealers who have good research backup, (lots of books to which they can refer), a good fake reference collection that the buyer may inspect, and subscription to such organisations as the International Bureau for the Supression of Counterfeit Coins (I.B.S.C.C.)
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Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2010  10:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A coin embargo... okay there... What about China and their antiquities? Let them keep their heritage, who really cares? You can always go to their museums and country if you want to see them so bad. You can't own everything.
Edited by Libertad
09/06/2010 10:58 am
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