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1796 Silver 8 Reale Coin

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Pillar of the Community

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 Posted 08/08/2006  09:56 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add texasmick to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I was wondering if anyone would make a suggestion of what this might be worth. Sorry, I don't have any other pics. TIA


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Susanlynn9's Avatar
United States
5877 Posts
 Posted 08/08/2006  10:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a job for Superman (Swamperbob)!

I'm afraid to give opinions on these now because so many turn out to be counterfeit. Swamperbob will know the answer to this one. He is truly an amazing source of knowledge on these.
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 Posted 08/08/2006  5:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
texasmick - Got your note. The coin employs the correct die style. It is not likely to be a contemporary counterfeit. Based on seeing this one side - I would tentatively say it is most likely real.

However, I do have a caution. There is an apparent "Swastika" chop on the neck of this one. I have noticed that there are a disproportionate number of late "bullion" forgeries made with a similar chop. I suspect that at least some of these late forgeries are the "Boston" forgeries made between 1890 and 1930 for use by Merchants Trading with China.

There is a very reliable method to isolate "Boston" forgeries from real coins. Every coin that I place in the Boston group has an edge with only ONE overlap instead of the two. All real 8Rs have TWO overlaps in the edge design located exactly opposite one another. That is due to the way they were made. One overlap is not possible on a real coin. A second clue with the Boston forgeries is that on about half of the edge there are visible diagnal grip marks ON TOP of the circle and rectangle design. But the diagonals do not extend around the entire coin.

I hope that helps. The "Boston" forgeries are full weight silver struck coins made when silver prices fell to levels under 50 cents an ounce. The Chinese Merchants preferred Portrait 8Rs so the Boston merchants had jewelers make copies in full weight silver. They were often chop marked before they were sent to China. They are often treated as REAL by coin dealers because the silver content checks out perfectly.
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 Posted 08/08/2006  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
texasmick - I missed the request for a price.

The coin is in my opinion "overly" choped to the point where it really becomes serious damage. I am not a great lover of chops anyway so I would peg the value at roughly $20 if real and about $25 to 30 if it is a Boston forgery with only one edge lap.

This is of course based on the presumption that it is mated with the Mo FM reverse. The portrait is Mexico city so any other mint and assayer would make it a forgery.
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Bryan1315's Avatar
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14454 Posts
 Posted 08/08/2006  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
look at the snot box on that gal WOW! looks like she was hit in the face with a frying pan
Edited by Bryan1315
08/08/2006 5:55 pm
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 Posted 08/08/2006  6:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
King Charles IV may not like being called a "she".

Even though at the time he was considered of less than perfect character.
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Bryan1315's Avatar
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 Posted 08/08/2006  6:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
wow thats a guy? oh well shows how much I know about world coins
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 Posted 08/09/2006  11:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add texasmick to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bob,

Thank you so much for the detailed response. Unfortunately, I didn't see your email until after I saw the coin, so I didn't realize that you were actually interested in it beyond your willingness to assist me. I'm very sorry; I feel like you helped me out and now I can't answer the lingering questions that you have.

I'll share my story:

I answered a local ad for someone selling off the remainder of an old collection. The ad that caught my eye was for the silver flats, rounds, and dollars that I posted about the other day. I was too late for them, but she still had the 8 Reale coin and a couple of binders of various coins.

I've been coveting an old Spanish dollar (and a Romain coin), so I made some inquiries about this one. It turns out she paid $99 for it from the Washington Mint several years back (I saw the receipt), but was willing to sell it for $45. I really didn't want to get off on the wrong foot by telling her that she paid far too much and that I could only offer $20.

By the time I got there, I knew that I was interested in the coins in the binder, having been educated that the Reale was not the specimen for me. I already felt uncomfortable sitting in a stranger's kitchen and I didn't think I could identify the presence or absence of an edge overlap. Really, if I had realized that I might be able to answer Swamperbob's questions, I would have opened the airtite and examined the edge. But for reasons stated above, I just gave the obverse and reverse a cursory look and moved on.

Bob, I want to say that the information you shared on the thread and in email is very interesting. I have such a keen and critical eye in my vocation, it eats at me that I can be so very very clueless in my avocation. It seems to me that the Washington Mint COA pretty much guarantees that the coin has the correct weight and composition, but that it still might be one of the Boston forgeries. Sadly, the question lingers....

I did cherrypick the coins from binders and offered a fair price, IMO (I can't go around buying things for ten cents on the dollar, I feel like a heel). I will share some pics after I get my new tripod set up

Thanks again, and....
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