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 Replies: 10 / Views: 2,208 |
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Valued Member
United States
307 Posts |
I am just starting to work my collection on a daily basis. I see so many ms/pr69 and 70 which was unheard even a few years ago. I feel that these higher numbers reflect that the older coins that were graded ms64/65 are not up to the standard that they now use as being a highly graded coin. I know as collectors, we always want the best that we can afford. The grading system wanted wanted to give us something to shoot for in this system of higher grades given out. We that collect old commemoritives are not included in this new system and our coins are consistently graded lower. This should be addressed. Newer dies and better methods used by the mint should not change the system of grading. The best coins of each year should be graded considering dies and methods used at that time. I use TPG but feel that older coins get a raw deal. Whats your feeling?  |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2448 Posts |
IMHO, we reap what we sow. We, the collector community, has constantly complained of the quality of the mint's work; they listened. Coins used to be minted for circulation for commerce. Mint processes were sometimes crude because how elaborate did a nickle have to be to buy a 5 cent cigar? Once in a while, a gem was found and collected or the fortunate could use their influence to get proofs or specimens directly from the mint. Now many of our collectible coins are not even released for circulation on a regular basis.
Coin population is another reason there are more modern coins being graded than classical coins. I checked several of the PCGS population reports for Morgans and the highest graded were MS-67 (darn I forgot to look at the proof side) and there just aren't that many out there. Anyway, there are a heck of a lot more modern coins, in better condition, than classical coins; also the classical coins were heavily circulated and many of the silver dollars and half dollars went to the smelter. Now, even us hoarders can buy all the gold and silver our pocketbooks can afford.
Another great improvement allowing modern coins to reach higher grades was mint packaging. How many Morgans have you seen delivered in a hard box in 20 coin plastic tubes? Even the old proof flat pack was replaced by a sealed display slabs. Have you ever seen an MS70 Morgan? I'm sure one is out there somewhere, but it hasn't made it to my collection. I believe that classical coins will always fall far behind the newer coins in terms of quality just because of the packaging issue alone.
Edited by carmykle
09/14/2010 12:48 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
307 Posts |
I totally agree with your assessment. I had several Morgans that I thought were ms70. They are almost a perfect coin. However I was told at a show that they would only grade out a 63. Well in my good book a Morgan or older coin that grades out a 63-65 is every bit as valuable as a grade of 70 on a newer issued coin. Thanks for the tip on using the census on graded coins. It may be worth the membership fee just to inform yourself and others of the number of graded coins of each type. Thanks for the input.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1534 Posts |
I can't think of any recent MS-70 business strikes, and anything above 67 is very rare. Many people believe the standard for moderns has gotten stricter, especially at PCGS. I think you're referring to proofs, which are almost always 69 and 70, since the Mint produces them very carefully.
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Valued Member
United States
307 Posts |
If you want to realize the impact look at the number of NGC 70 both PF-MS listed on ebay. There are 2126 graded 70. The total number of NGC listings is 31,712. PCGS has 798 MS-PF 70 listed with a total listing of 33658. ANACS has no 70 listed with total listings of 5781. All of the 70 are newer issues. I started this thread because Of remarks made by younger collectors that they only buy coins graded 69-70. If it becomes a number game many new collectors will miss out on the real beginning of our hobby. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2448 Posts |
I agree 100%.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
The only MS graded 70's you will find are since 2005 and are satin finish coins from the mint sets and some of the unc commemorative dollars. There has only been one MS-70 business strike ever certified and it turned in the holder and has had the grade reduced. As Wheatguy said there are almost no business strike coins graded above the MS-67 level. PF-68 and 69's in recent years are now so common that in many cases they sell for less than the slabbing fees. To a large extent only the PF-70's have a premium, and they are becoming common as well. I think almost half of the proof ASE or commem dollars submitted now are coming back as 70's and most of the others are 69's. (Of course this is because if they don't think it has a good chance at getting a 70 they don't submit it because otherwise it would not pay the slabbing fees.) |
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Valued Member
United States
307 Posts |
That is the reason for my concern. We are talking of going to the Tampa show and I hope that coin people will recognize that if the best of the best of a particular coin type is 66-67 a 63-65 is still a very good type coin. You are right. Having a previously graded coin regraded upward is not likely, as I found out. Put in a new holder will not change the previous grade of the same TPG. Thanks for your comments. |
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Valued Member
United States
83 Posts |
It seems that recently and especialy with the statehood series quarters, the number of Proof 70's is way up there. Why, well I can only guess it is because of the new presses being utalized by the mint, or perhaps the quality of the planchettes they are purchasing. Either way, all this does is lower the value of those specific coins as the population grows. I recently purchased a batch of NGC PF70UC territorials for $6.00 each + buyers premium. (cheaper then submitting coins myself)
As to and MS-70 there are newer coins graded by PCGS as I have some in my PCGS registry. If I could post photos I would, but being new here, I guess I have to wait untill I can post pictures.
Some of the ones I have are as follows:
1994 Women in Military
2006 Old San Francisco Mint (S$1)
2007W S1$ Eagle.
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Valued Member
Canada
307 Posts |
Quote:
I started this thread because Of remarks made by younger collectors that they only buy coins graded 69-70. If it becomes a number game many new collectors will miss out on the real beginning of our hobby. if they only collect 69-70 than they will never have a full collection of coins as IMO the only way to get that grade is in a mint set. Just the way coins are minted for circulation preclude a perfect coin. the older coins (in canada)I believe before 1954 did not come in a set and were silver so chances of higher than 66 are slim. |
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Valued Member
United States
380 Posts |
srgbigred: note; you can upload pictures from the beginning your 1st post can include pics.
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Replies: 10 / Views: 2,208 |
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Posted 09/14/2010 3:00 pm
