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What Are The Numbers

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johnathan's Avatar
Canada
107 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2010  10:55 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add johnathan to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
What are the numbers next to the letters ie au55? Is it like a percentage towards the next higher grade..say AU ?
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Money's Avatar
United States
160 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2010  11:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Money to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the number it on the scale of 1-70. 70 Being perfect
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johnathan's Avatar
Canada
107 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2010  01:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnathan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the number it on the scale of 1-70. 70 Being perfect



yes but was wondering how it relates to a lower grade ie VG30? I see the logic compared to say a MS70, but not sure how relates to lower grades, I'm guessing the higher the number the closer to the next grade up ?
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2010  03:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can remember reading about this some years ago. The system 1 through 70 as everybody understands, is an increasing grade and therefore, value scale.

When it was originally devised, the poorest condition coin which was G had an average market value of one.

At the other end of the scale the equivalent perfectly struck coin with absolutely no damage or wear whatsoever, was found on average, to have a value in the market that was 70 times as great.

A condition scale was assigned to all of the intermediate grades with relative market values attached thereto.

Needless to say almost types of coins these days have a greater or less range of value corresponding to their condition, however the condition range, which we all know and love (or hate), remained.

In the American market most coin fans have come to prefer the condition range 1 to 70, and this preference has no doubt been favoured by the advent of slabbing.

These days, as everyone knows, there can be huge differences in values between say MS (Mint State) 60 and 65. This is the main reason I think, why Third Party Grading is so widely accepted.

Before the MS 1 through 70 grading system, the difference in value between MS 60 and 65 for just about any valuable coin, was much less than it is now. This is the case worldwide, even where the MS 1 through 70 grading system is not used.
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johnathan's Avatar
Canada
107 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2010  04:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnathan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote..At the other end of the scale the equivalent perfectly struck coin with absolutely no damage or wear whatsoever, was found on average, to have a value in the market that was 70 times as great



Thanks for post,are you saying that MS70 a perfect coin would sell or be worth 70 times the value of a MS.. not sure if this is correct?

Also say a VG30 does that mean the value is 30% above a VG ? thanks for any clarifications... j, check back later
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sel_69l's Avatar
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 Posted 09/23/2010  05:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is how it was all those years ago when the system was first mooted. Current values have absolutely no relation to the condition scale now.

The reason for this is that the price growth for top condition coins have been much greater than coins in lesser grades.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16857 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2010  05:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The numbers are known as the "Sheldon Scale"; it's simply a different way of writing down the grade, using numbers rather than letters. "40" means the same as "EF": extremely fine.

It's origin: in a book about early American cents written in 1949, W.H. Sheldon discerned a formula between condition and price. His book only listed prices for "basal state" (worn flat) coins; prices for coins in better condition could be estimated by taking the basal state price and multiplying it by the Sheldon number. Thus, a coin in EF-40 condition was worth twice as much as a coin in VF-20 condition, and 40 times as much as a worn flat coin of the same type. The system has evolved slightly since then, too; basal sate "BS-1" is now called poor "PO-1". Here is the Scale as it is now used by PCGS; other grading companies in north America all use a similar scale, though each has their own modifications.

Of course, the relationship between price and condition is no longer quite so simple, even for the early US copper cents the scale was designed for use with. A coin in MS-67 is worth far, far more than a coin in MS-60. Yet the numbers are retained, out of tradition.

The British grading company CGS UK couldn't care less about the Sheldon Scale or other coin grading traditions the North Americans observe; their numerical grades use a 100 point scale.

I don't really know why numbers are so important in grading coins these days. Maybe they like the way it makes coin grading look all scientific and statistical, rather that the dark art that it actually is.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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johnathan's Avatar
Canada
107 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2010  10:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnathan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That is how it was all those years ago when the system was first mooted. Current values have absolutely no relation to the condition scale now



Thanks for replys little better to understand... j



Quote:
I don't really know why numbers are so important in grading coins these days. Maybe they like the way it makes coin grading look all scientific and statistical, rather that the dark art that it actually is.




good points
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2010  01:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It was so long ago that I read about the proposed introduction of the Sheldon Scale that I had forgotten the name of the guy who first proposed it.

My only guess re grading numbers is that you could differentiate between say, a VF 20 and VF 21, and thus try to justify the higher price for the higher grade. You would have to be very observant to pick a difference THAT fine! May be much more justified with the different grades being MS64 and MS65.
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