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 Replies: 6 / Views: 6,642 |
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Valued Member
United States
128 Posts |
Recently I bought some coins from an auction on line. The seller seemed like a fair and honest person and provided pictures and a grade in what he felt was a fair assessment. I took these coins to a local dealer and got stunned as to the offer made by the dealer for the coins. One example is the Grant star commemorative coin in MS66 and for values, he gives the next grade down for an example. Now this is not a common coin, but got a $40 offer from a local dealer saying it was "cleaned" and virtually worthless.
Next I did a search on other auctions namely Stacks and did a search for cleaned coins in their archives only to find that "cleaned" coins did bring pretty good money in spite of their cleaning, not what a MS65 would bring, but not $40 either. So what am I missing? I do feel that the seller needs to be up front with the cleaning aspect, which is not disclosing the true condition of the coin, but then is the local dealer looking to make a quick score hoping that I would be convinced that these rare coins are trash? Mind you that I took in a $20 gold Liberty and did not even get melt on that coin.
What am I missing?
Alan
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Pillar of the Community
United States
602 Posts |
What your missing is that a dealer is not going to pay full retail for your coins, but @ 1/2 of retail or less depending on the market and the coin. Your seeing a higher price at stacks because that is sold at full retail, or what a collector is willing to pay to own the coin. This make sense. And yes cleaned coins do bring less but some collectors wont care if it is a very rare coin. Supply and demand is what its all about. WOLF
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
I feel that in you found yourself in a situation where both ends of the pineapple were a bit rough. Maybe if you had shopped around a little bit more, you would have been more 'streetwise'.
A coin collector is dealing with dealers, so in a sense, you are a dealer, too. It is best to think like one.
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Valued Member
United States
83 Posts |
Well once again this goes to show you that a coins grade is determined by the person who says what it is. Now if the person thinks they can grade, then you will get one grade, if the person is actually a full time numismatist and really knows grading, you get another grade.
As to the dealer making a low-ball offer, well perhaps it wouldn't hurt to purchase a new copy of the "blue book" which lists the prices dealers will pay. Don't forget, dealers have to have room to make a profit, so if you want to sell for top dollar, then try a coin show.
In regards to "cleaned coins" there are two versions, one is to make the coin nice and shiny and the other is to "preserve" the coin. High end coins are not cleaned as the condition and quality of the field is important. Cleaning will alter the field in it's luster and tone.
It is worth the time and money to purchase books on grading, and to also research the Internet. I have found numerous web sites that provide photos of graded coins to use for comparison. There are even versions you can download to your I-phone or Android so you can carry around a grading guide as well as a price guide.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1534 Posts |
The coins may have been harshly cleaned which would affect the apparently low offer the dealer gave you. Pictures of the coin would help, but I'd advise studying a little more about grading and cleaning before buying more coins. Is the Grant commemorative graded, or is it just your opinion that it's a 66?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Your just a typical customer. By that I mean you are the one buying something and the person selling that item can ask for a price for what they think it could sell for regardless of what it is. A cleaned coin is just that, something that someone wants to sell for whatever they can get for it. Most coin dealers full well know that many customers will buy something that looks pretty, nice and shinny, no dirt or toning, etc. These are the usually new or uneducatsed in the ways of coins values and there are many, many out there.
Coins in some ways are like cars. There are people that would buy a cleaned, polished, bright shinny car and never think of even checking to see if it had an engine. If the seats were a bit dirty and/or had a rip, naturally that car can't be the best and yet again and if the tires were dirty, that too is a no-no but they could be bald but as long as they are clean, must be great.
Coin dealers today full well know that on line they are exposing their coins to many millions of people and as with the car, the cleaner and shinnier a coin, the better chances of selling it.
And always remember that ALL PRICE GUIDES for coins are just that, a guide. The real price of a coin is what someone will pay for it.
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Valued Member
 United States
128 Posts |
Thanks for all the information. The coin is raw and shows no damage at all. Pictures on the auction site and the verbal description is what I had to go by. I did not expect a 66, but at least a 60+/- and I would be okay. As I look at Teletrade and other venues, I find that by getting it slabbed and even "Genuine" will make it marketable. I find $40 for a Grant star, something that even in fine would pick up more than $40. I did have a test coin in the batch, which was a Mint 1898 $20 gold Liberty. It did not even get close to melt from the dealer. So, I will seek some more opinions and take it to a show this weekend. But what I have been told is that unless it is scrubbed with a Brillo pad, even this coin would get AU money as they drop a grade due to cleaning as a "rule of thumb", that said, I would buy this coin all day long for $40 and never look back. Maybe later this week I might get better news. And even though I have been collecting for over 40 years, I do depend on the seller being up front about the description. I have a good eye, in person, and a good collection, even a set ranked in the 150 range on the NGC Registry. The seller is making a case and working with me. The dealer making the low ball offers will be tested by locals to see if this is a practice where he is fleecing people bringing in coins and metals for sale and he is taking advantage of his "position". He has never liked a coin I have brought him, but it might be a way to get another customer by saying anything, but his stuff is garbage. Time will tell. I did not do bad, as I think it will resale for more, but the low offers on everything I brought in was a surprise. I have bought rare coins that were advertised as cleaned and am happy as I would never own it other wise. But any seller who calls himself a numismatist can not pretend that because he did not clean it that it is OK to omit. If I sell it, I will not have cleaned it, but will give my knowledge of the coin so that the next owner will not be thinking he has the Holy Grail and be shocked to find out different.
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Replies: 6 / Views: 6,642 |
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Posted 09/24/2010 10:32 pm
