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Replies: 86 / Views: 7,509 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
Quote: Given the 95% copper Cent's proven longevity in circulation (and zinc Cents' quick deterioration), the Mint isn't really saving any money on a long-term basis when they have to replace a zinc coin several times during what would have been the circulation lifetime of a single copper Cent. Good observation--I wonder how long those Zincolns will survive? Many from the 80s are already in poor shape. Fortunately for collectors, I don't think coins will ever go away because there will always be a need for hard currency in non-electronic transactions. I could be wrong though. The plating used on Canada's steel-core cents seems to hold up well. I don't like aluminum coins, but I wonder if there are alloys less costly than bronze or CuNi?
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New Member
United States
29 Posts |
They'll just do away with the cent before changing the comp. They lose $ everytime they create one.
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New Member
United States
10 Posts |
Not sure if anyone answered why the gold/silver standard will not work but I'll throw my 2 cents in. We now know that gold and silver prices have been manipulated by the world's governments for decades. The thought process, I assume, was to make the U.S. dollar appear to be more valuable than gold/silver. Ron Paul's book he wrote in the early 80s (I think) discuss this in detail. I can't remember the name of itbut it's a good read. Furthermore, the gold/silver standard makes it more difficult for the few banking cartels to enslave the common folk by bogging us down in debt. Additionally, Greenspan and his cronnies rolled out the electronic stock market that can theoretically make a man a billionaire without a single dollar or pice of gold changing hands. I would love to see the gold standard come back in some form, if for no other reason to take some of the manipulative power away from the frderal reserve crooks!
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Valued Member
United States
98 Posts |
So instead of cash representing imaginary numbers in an accounting book, cash would again represent deposits of large shiny bricks instead. Why use the bricks when the imaginary numbers do the same thing? Say I have $1000 in my bank account, it doesn't make a difference to me if there is a large chunk of metal that represents my $1000 or an entry in an electronic database that says I have $1000. As long as the bank can give me access to that $1000, whether it be by giving me little discs of metal, or small pieces of paper, or a rectangular piece of plastic, I'll be happy.
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New Member
United States
10 Posts |
True but problem is without some sort of basis that reflects the true value of our currency (gold or other tangible assets) we are at the mercy of those who can print currency non-stop. The resulting inflation has no control mechanisms, other than supply and demand, meaning we must have blind faith in the fiat system, which I do not. True wealth will always be measured in gold/silver/properties etc. It is well documented, beginning with FDR, that the common man shouldn't hold any asset other than the government's debt. Every dollar in all of our accounts equal debt. The bigger issue is the banking system as a whole. If it fails not even gold can save us, can't eat gold or drink gold milk. Haha. We shall see what comes of the latest recession, especially as the unknown billions of dollars banks have been sitting on from the bailout enter the market. As Eisenhower warned in his swan song, "beware of the military-industrial complex!"
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
Syaoran_2001: Could I buy your house with IOUs? I think you would reject the validity of my slips. I would.
My belief is that money should be based on valuable tangibles and a form of credit, like a portfolio. Basically, your paystubs and assets gets converted into "official" money. But I am novice, if this doesn't actually work I wouldn't be surprised.
Gold is simply the easiest valuable tangible asset, I think. It can be melted and recycled and the purity can be known scientifically. I know it's just a happenstance that this yellow rock appears on our planet, so I wonder how trade is done in far-out worlds.
Going back to that $3 change for $2.10.... I think a better example is a $.10 item plus a $.25, and getting change back from a dollar. People would be forced to carry around a few of each coin just to be able to make a purchase. Perhaps if coins were magnetic to each other they would be less of a hassle for the average Joe and Joanna.
Edited by Libertad 10/13/2010 3:23 pm
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Valued Member
United States
98 Posts |
I'm not going to pretend to understand economics, and honestly don't care one bit about economics. To me, gold and silver are still just shiny little pieces of metal that someone somewhere at some time decided would be valuable. They could have chosen sticks to be valuable, but they weren't shiny or pretty, so gold it was. My point is, why do we need tangible assets when imaginary assets suit me just as easily. My job pays me with a piece of paper that has a number printed on it, that piece of paper goes to my bank where they type the number shown on my paper into a computer where it's entered into a database page with my name on it. Every time I get a new piece of paper from my job, the bank adds the number from it into my database entry. I get another piece of paper in the mail that says I need to give somebody a certain amount of numbers. If the numbers in my database are equal to or larger than the numbers on the paper, then whoever sent me the paper subtracts those numbers and I have a lower number. I go to the store to get food for my family; the store has little pieces of paper on the shelf with numbers on them representing how many numbers that business decides I should give them for a given item. Again, if those numbers are equal to or less than the numbers in my database entry, and I have determined that that item is something I want, the store will then subtract those numbers from my numbers. This entire process provides me with everything I need, with absolutely no tangible assets needed. The only tangible things are paper and ink.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2424 Posts |
Syoran, very soon the paper and ink will be worthless, some people burned it to keep warm... The IMF, international monetary fund and world banks are already having talks of globalizing our currencies. which means for weaker currencies, bad news. Like someone said, back when we were on the metal standard, the US dollar was trying to be the superpower; well, we WERE. what happened? A lot between 1930 and today, inflation, bad choices, bad debt, credit debt, foolish decisions PEOPLE made, etc.. my point is, the current state of the union/economy is not looking good. The FED is using QE, quantitative easing, basically pumping the economy with more money and making money more liquid -meaning that the new money they print does not stay in the US but actually ends up leaving the US for many reasons, but the main few, paying off the US's own IOU'S.. funny, which in-turn creates more inflation, which in turn debases the USD more. Now, as bad as this sounds, US economists are actually wanting this to happen. why? well, by debasing the USdollar, it makes other currencies, i.e the Chinese Yuan, more powerful which in turn, supposedly helps spur more economic growth with increased US exports. What is happening in our economy is overall, not good. Bottom line, if the US continues to print money it doesn't have, your paper and ink become worth less and less.. which is why almost every single article out there on the matter strongly suggests that you tie up some paper and ink in tangible silver and gold. One economist said it wont be long before you will not be able to afford either metal. maybe this article will help illustrate where the US could be at.. http://www.zerohedge.com/article/ar...perinflation
Edited by SDcoinguy 10/13/2010 4:09 pm
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Valued Member
United States
98 Posts |
I didn't really understand any of that, all that bit about "the strength of the US dollar" means absolutely nothing to me. My point is: I have a job, I make money, I can afford my bills, and I can afford to eat. I'm actually making more money now then I ever have in my entire life, so for me personally, the economy doesn't really have a noticeable effect on me. As long there is the illusion that I have money, I don't care one bit about what all those numbers mean and what's being done with them.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2120 Posts |
I think Syaoran is saying hes an average American and doesn't want to be bothered with.
Nothing wrong with that. I enjoy reading about these subjects, but rarely do I have a staggering opinion about it.
Some people just live and enjoy life for what it is. A short period of time where you consume, replicate, and die. :D
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Valued Member
United States
98 Posts |
That's a good way of putting it. Economics just makes absolutely no sense to me; I know how to budget my money and that's about as far as I care to take it. As long as I have income coming in I don't have to worry about how the economy is doing or whether or not we're in a recession or a depression or whatever new BS term they've come up with.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
Quote: Not sure if anyone answered why the gold/silver standard I'm vaguely familiar with what happened in the late 1800s, when the US had coined considerable amounts of silver, followed by a massive dumping of silver by European powers. The silver crash really impacted the solvency of US currency at the time. In the 19C., when silver prices rose quickly, silver coins disappeared from circulation because it more profitable to melt than use at face value. The same would happen today if the US minted silver $1 in 2006, pegged to the value of silver. Today, at $24/oz. these coins would simply vanish.
Edited by DVCollector 10/13/2010 7:03 pm
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New Member
United States
10 Posts |
Long story short, the Federal Reserve Act signed by FDR gave the J.P Morgan and Rockefellers of the world legal power to control the monetary policies as well as print the money.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2830 Posts |
interesting thread. In Austrlia, our 1 and 2 cent coins were withdrawn from circulation 20 years ago. There was no pain. Some retailers price everything so that it ends in a zero or a five, so there is no rounding. Others don't even use fives. This big retailers promise us that their prices are trimmed to the bone, so their prices might end in 1, 2, 3, etc. When you pay, the cashier rounds, up or down, according to an accepted formula: 1 or 2 goes down; 3, 4, 6, or 7 becomes five; and 8 & 9 go up. If you pay by plastic card, the transaction is not rounded.
Regarding gold standard and money supply: the U.S. government has been spending more than it receives for many decades, and it funds this deficit by printing vast quantities of greenbacks, which are shipped offshore. These accumulate in Central banks around the world: CBs like to hold lots of "foreign reserves", especially (upto now) greenbacks. This, plus the fact that the USD is the principal medium of exchange for international transactions, has buoyed the greenback way above its intrinsic value. Some, including me, think that this era will come to an end soon. According to today's news, the U.S. is about to "print more money" as another "stimulus". Right now, the exchange rate between USD & AUD is at its most favourable for Australia (and therefore least favourable for the U.S.) in 27 years. I don't know about the USD relative to other currencies. But, once the world gets tired of seeing their reserves of greenbacks eroded by inflation and declining relativity, then the USD will go into freefall. The question is: when might that be ?
Interesting times ...
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2448 Posts |
Well Peter Thomas, "stay tuned to this station." Bernanke's speech yesterday spoke of further QE2. His cryptic "A bit more easing" comment should have sent the US dollar reeling, but it didn't. Today it's stronger and commodity prices fell...so far. Looks like he wants to keep the buck around 80 against the Yen for some reason. Like you, I predict that if it hits...say 70...it just might free fall. It's already down to a .71 against the Euro. Wasn't just last month the FOREX guys were yelling parity with the Euro. By the way, how does it feel to know that the Australian, Canadian, and American Buck are worth about the same today. My Molson and Foster is getting way to expensive.  Hang on to your coinage; I have a feeling it'll come in handy. 
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Replies: 86 / Views: 7,509 |