| Author |
 Replies: 19 / Views: 3,185 |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
870 Posts |
I'm leaving the question purposefully vague in hopes of soliciting all opinions. =)  Thank you!! |
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3283 Posts |
Cast replica of a St.Gaudens?
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2120 Posts |
I would have to ask dimensions, cause this looks to me like a smaller than implied coin.
Might be a gold replica 1/5th ounce or something.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
1907 $20 High Relief but I have doubts that it is genuine. The designer initials look like a blob, nevermind the fact that I have only seen a couple coins posted here in five years that enter that rarefied territory of $50,000+(not counting uber coins owned/sold by others). Your vagueness also lends to my suspicion  |
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
870 Posts |
Well, I'm no expert - I've never handled one in hand, and I certainly haven't handled this one. In comparing with photos of other coins, it looks to me like there's something not right about it. Could it be that the strike just isn't that sharp? Could it be that the fields really should be grainy like that? I've never seen one like that, but I haven't seen a lot, so I'm not sure. Anyway, seems like a reputable seller. I sent him a very polite message and I went way out of my way to make sure I told him I wasn't an expert, and he replied like a jerk - threatened to block me from bidding! I was honestly just trying to help. =( There ya go. Here is the auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...110593833031And here's the message trail: Hello! You certainly have some beautiful coins! The one I'm actually asking about is the 1907 high relief St. Gaudens, not the dollar referenced in the subject line. After reviewing the beautiful pictures you've taken of this coin and comparing it with others - especially the other HR Double Eagle you sold recently like this, I'm concerned this may not be what you think it is...? I'm nobody, and I know you're an expert, but I'd hate for you to have trouble, so please look again if it's not too much trouble... This coin looks like a cast replica - the surfaces are grainy and the edges not nearly as sharp as the others. I was seriously thinking about bidding on this coin until I noticed this detail. I hope I've been helpful today; if not, please disregard and happy selling! Best of luck to you and your auctions. Wonderful coins! I may buy something from you soon! :D Cheers, delaner I don't know how to be more polite or self-effacing than that! And his response: Ryan, Coin is definitely NOT a replica. It's absolutely GENUINE, as are all of the coins I've listed on ebay. All coins have been authenticated in the past by extremely reputable sources, and purchased from only reputable sources. There is no indication as you claim of this coin or any other coin I have listed, that would suggest that they are replicas. If you're really concerned, I can certainly block you from bidding, which I am very tempted to do, anyway! I do not appreciate false accusations, and if you were that knowledgable, you wouldn't have made such an accusation in the first place! - seriouscoins |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
870 Posts |
by the way, the reason I posted all this is that I'd love to know how I could have handled this better. Perhaps I just shouldn't have said anything, but I certainly don't feel I accused anyone of anything. It looks significantly different from all of the other coins on ebay and on Heritage that I've looked at in detail. But, what do I know? Oh well. |
|
Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
This seller is extremely dishonest at the very least; I remember he tried to buy a slight problem coin from me probably to pass it off as GEM BU as hes done before to other people. I removed his offer and blocked him. No wonder he responded like a jerk. I wouldnt at all be surprised if it were fake btw. Don't buy from this guy....ever. Just trust me.
|
|
Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
If real, its likely it was polished and he cracked it from a problem slab. The fact that he calls this BU is suspect in the least. NOT a reputable seller. Not at all!
|
|
Valued Member
India
265 Posts |
very nice image, and coin too. But I cannot decide whether it has been polished, fake or original. But I am very delighted to get information from very experienced coin collectors worldwide.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
291 Posts |
How come questions don't show on ebay any more? Seems when they ungraded ebay six or so months ago, I haven't seen a single posted question on ebay. |
|
Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
Search heritage or teletrade and its possible you'll find this coin in an AU details polished slab (most likely heritage). Sorry for my cynicism but I've just seen too much of this garbage to let it pass by without saying something.
|
|
Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
Quote:Hello! You certainly have some beautiful coins! The one I'm actually asking about is the 1907 high relief St. Gaudens, not the dollar referenced in the subject line. After reviewing the beautiful pictures you've taken of this coin and comparing it with others - especially the other HR Double Eagle you sold recently like this, I'm concerned this may not be what you think it is...? I'm nobody, and I know you're an expert, but I'd hate for you to have trouble, so please look again if it's not too much trouble... This coin looks like a cast replica - the surfaces are grainy and the edges not nearly as sharp as the others. I was seriously thinking about bidding on this coin until I noticed this detail. I hope I've been helpful today; if not, please disregard and happy selling! Best of luck to you and your auctions. Wonderful coins! I may buy something from you soon! :D Cheers, delaner I don't know how to be more polite or self-effacing than that! And his response: Ryan, Coin is definitely NOT a replica. It's absolutely GENUINE, as are all of the coins I've listed on ebay. All coins have been authenticated in the past by extremely reputable sources, and purchased from only reputable sources. There is no indication as you claim of this coin or any other coin I have listed, that would suggest that they are replicas. If you're really concerned, I can certainly block you from bidding, which I am very tempted to do, anyway! I do not appreciate false accusations, and if you were that knowledgable, you wouldn't have made such an accusation in the first place! - seriouscoins Wow. If this is the entirity of your message trail(you didn't leave out any pieces), then I say you did absolutely nothing wrong. You were courteous and professional, and you certainly didnt make any accusations. The seller came off like a complete jerk, and insulted you in the process for no reason. As far as this coin is concerned, the fact that it is NOT certified by a top TPG alone would be cause for questioning. And there is no way you can say for sure that a given High Relief saint is authentic from ebay pictures, which would mean that EVERY raw high relief saint should be questioned imo. The counterfeiter "Omega" became famous because of this coin, and his HRS counterfeits were nearly perfect....and this was years ago(counterfeiting has become more sophisticated since). At 5 figures plus, why would one even attempt to sell this raw? even if it had problems or from a reputable dealer, THIS COIN ABSOLUTELY REQUIRES CERTIFICATION! Anyways, you did nothing wrong delaner. If this coin was in fact authenticated by a reputable source, he needs to be more specific and prove it. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
870 Posts |
He ended up trying to be nice in the end. I did leave nothing out. There was more, after, at which point he was at least civil.
I want to take a moment to apologize to you all for dragging you in. I should not have been even *thinking* about this coin uncertified, and a quick search on that username yielded a couple of threads that should have given me pause to begin with. There was no reason to get this far with this guy - "seriouscoins", there was no reason to contact him. He's a fraud. I need to right down some procedures before I bother you all with an extraneous posting.
Thank you all VERY MUCH for your feedback and consideration! Unfortunately, the coin sold, fortunately it was for under $10k. Had I bought it, I'd have sent it off to PCGS immediately, but you all and this forum saved me the hassle! Not to mention being a lot lighter on cash. =)
Sometimes my common sense takes an unannounced leave of absence.
Enough of this garbage for me, back to the good stuff! And again thank you!!
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
968 Posts |
You ask what you should have done differently. I would not have contacted him unless I was positive that it was a fake and could give very clear cut reasons why. The reason is if the guy is professional seller there are two likely things going on. One, he believes it is genuine and is insulted that you would question his integrity. Two, he is dishonest and will get mad that you are calling him on it, but will need to act like he is on the up and up and the coin is legit. In either case he may know other big sellers and get you blacklisted. Even if I was certain it was fake I probably wouldn't have done it. I would report it to ebay (with my evidence about why it is fake) and just not buy from him. I think it is stupid to try and sell a real coin of that value on ebay. Once you start getting into $10,000+ coins you are really in the realm of someone like Heritage. In other words, I don't have $10,000 worth of trust in ebay and its sellers, but I do with Heritage. |
|
Valued Member
United States
266 Posts |
I wouldn't have touched that auction even it were for a sub-$100 coin. ALL CAPS IN AUCTION DESCRIPTION SCREAMS UNPROFESSIONAL!!
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
870 Posts |
lol - thanks for the advice cperry!
And Saruma, you make some great points and I have learned from them and will heed your advice. If you compare the "edges" of the strike - that is, the obverse rays, the edge lettering, and other "sharp" strike points on the coin to a known legitimate (certified) version, you'll see there's something very wrong. If this guy was legit, he'd take one look at this coin and compare to another and see that. He's not legit, so he's pawning something. That's why the coin isn't certified, that's why he shills his "private" auctions, that's why he responded as he did.
Questioning his integrity or not, I explicitly stated that he was the expert and I didn't know much. Reiterating that information to me in such a rude and obnoxious manner tells me he's hiding something. Was he a genuine seller of good character, he'd have asked me to point out what specifics I was referring to so that he could educate me as to the contradictions and help me understand that this indeed was a genuine article. Or, he would have realized he had accidentally listed a questionable coin and pulled the auction. He did neither, proving he is not honorable nor gracious, and he has no place in this business.
Such is life, we find them every day, and we must work hard to overcome the damage persons like this bring to the hobby. =)
Edited by delaner
10/13/2010 12:30 pm
|
| |
Replies: 19 / Views: 3,185 |
Posted 10/12/2010 2:36 pm
